is the xp lost on death a good design ?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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modemwarr#6858 wrote:

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

For example here we do have a player with lacking defense and little to no care in the world to avoid well telegraphed and obvious attacks.

Would like to know how many "obvious attacks" You can see with 12.000 MS on GGG servers. xD lol Their server response is bad in our country.

That's also a big problem that just deletes people's exp lol, desync issues and just ms lag. My normal ms is like 36-40 but almost every other map I either desync when flamedashing or some enemy/projectile isn't where it actually is shown on my screen, or the game decides to just not render an attack and then you're dead. And I refuse to play on anything other than Predictive mode, because Lockstep makes me feel like I constantly have 5000 ms every time I click to move anywhere, its the most annoying thing ever.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

It doesn't matter if this is a "hardcore" game. People choose to play in softcore for a reason lol

And yes, some players do in fact lose a lot of progress from dying at lvl99. It takes me like a whole day or 2 to get to like 15% exp at lvl99 running Mesa maps all day, because it takes me like 30 mins to 1 hour to run like 8-9 maps. And I'm not running some crazy juiced strat specialized for exp, I'm just running strongboxes and have every league mechanic except heist blocked on my atlas. I die once or twice and there goes all my exp from a few days. And forget about even touching any atlas pinnacle boss or endgame encounter, my exp might aswell be eternally at 0%. So no, it is not easy to make 10% exp at lvl99 for the average softcore trade player, it takes me 5 lvl83 sanctum runs to get that exp and those take like 20 mins each even when I speedrun and skip as much as I can WHILE using a Sublime Vision 39% effect for Haste with my 21 haste in my +2 helmet. That is insanity, you cannot expect the average player to be doing this for 2% exp that can be lost so easily. If I'm lucky I get 4% from a sanctum run if I get the relic that converts coins to exp and I get like 6k coins.


Not everyone wants to just copy some boring meta build with only like 5 mil dps and all the defensive layers in the game and the same boring checklists of suppression and whatever else. Do you know how expensive and hard that suppression gear is to craft? You have to buy it all off players and the prices are insane. People just wanna have fun, and losing exp is unfun and has 0 positives for this game. It's a net negative. Absolutely nobody feels any stakes because of "oh nooo I will lose 10% when I die", they're just annoyed by it and then either avoid all dangerous content until they level up and are not allowed to boss or progress until that point, which is just bad game design. Or they buy a 5-way legion and afk in there burning all their divines, also some of these exp groups even require you to find and equip chaos res gear so that's fun.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

Hey, I get it—losing XP sucks. It’s frustrating, especially after you’ve spent hours grinding only to watch your progress disappear because of one bad moment. But let me push back a bit, because I think XP loss is a necessary evil that actually makes the game better.

Softcore Doesn’t Mean No Challenge:
Sure, you’re in softcore, so you’re not losing your character when you die. But “softcore” doesn’t mean you should be handed everything on a silver platter either. XP loss adds stakes without the brutality of hardcore, maintaining some level of risk and reward. Otherwise, why not just call it “tourist mode” and remove all penalties?

Level 99 Isn’t Supposed to Be a Walk in the Park:
Getting to level 100 is meant to be a grueling grind—it’s an achievement for the truly dedicated. If everyone could casually stroll into level 100, it wouldn’t mean anything. Besides, it’s not mandatory. If the XP penalty feels too punishing, maybe level 98 is a perfectly respectable stopping point?

Risk Keeps Things Interesting:
Without XP loss, dangerous encounters lose all tension. You’d be able to throw yourself at bosses like you’re playing Diablo 4. And let’s be real—do you know how boring Diablo 4 is? No XP loss on death, no meaningful stakes, just endless monotony. Removing penalties doesn’t make games more fun; it just makes them bland.

Meta Builds Aren’t a Requirement (But They Help for a Reason):
Look, no one’s forcing you to copy a meta build, but those builds exist because they work. Figuring out your own playstyle and navigating the economy is part of what makes PoE so engaging. Yes, suppression gear is pricey—welcome to a player-driven economy! Grinding for it and eventually succeeding is what separates meaningful progress from trivial gains.

Game Design Relies on Balance:
Removing XP loss would have unintended consequences. People would brute-force every boss and dangerous encounter without a second thought, trivializing the game. If there’s no penalty for failure, success means nothing. And for those who actually grind their way to 100, their hard work would feel devalued.

Mitigation Tools Exist (Even if They’re Annoying):
Yes, options like omens, XP boosting services, or waiting for a fresh level aren’t perfect, but they’re there for a reason. PoE is a game about resource management and strategy. Deciding when to take risks or spend resources to mitigate them is part of the challenge. Without it, the game would lose a lot of its depth.

So yeah, XP loss is frustrating, but it’s also what keeps the game engaging. If you want a truly risk-free grind, there are games out there that offer that experience—just don’t complain when they start to feel like a snooze fest. (cough Diablo 4 cough).

That said, I do think adding some mitigation options, like temporary XP protection during boss fights, might be worth considering. It could strike a balance between keeping stakes high and reducing frustration.

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

they should just try for one league, no xp penalty on death and see where it goes.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

You've completely missed the point. Nobody playing softcore wants hardcore mechanics forced on them by the game. Nobody. Yes playing softcore means I don't want to lose progression on death, that's the whole reason people hate hc. You lose an entire character you spent hours upon hours making.

Lvl100 is not an achievement, never was never will be. Mindlessly grinding safe maps or paying for breachstone rotas/legion 5-ways is easy. Or maybe you want people to go back to the days of snapshotting 20 strand maps in solaris temple and running them on their spark inquisitor? Just because something takes a long time and you need to do a monotonous action over and over doesn't make it an achievement. It's just a boring grind and nothing else.

Risk doesn't make the game interesting for everyone. That's the whole reason people prefer sc? Exp loss is just an annoying thing you have to worry about so you're discouraged from doing bosses until you level up. Effectively gatekeeping you and locking you out of that content. I don't care that I lose exp, if I really wanna do a boss I go in and die 4 times lose my whole level and complete it. Exp loss is just bad design. I already throw myself at bosses and corrupted bricked 8-mod maps and use my 6 portals as my defensive layers lol, so removing exp loss would change nothing about how I play this game, it would only make it less annoying when I die. Which is a positive thing.

Grinding 2 weeks to buy a mageblood and nimis doesn't mean anything. It just means you were willing to copy paste the newest splitting steel trickster meta build. Meta builds are a requirement if you wanna comfortably run certain content like Simulacrum. Good luck throwing any random build or leaguestarter into that without dying 5 times lol

This game is not balanced, nor is it designed around hardcore at all. It's designed around sc trade. Removing exp loss would be a net positive, it would have 0 consequences for anyone except the people who defend it for no reason because obviously they aren't affected by it and don't die 1000 times in a league.

And having to buy some omen or whatever is cringe af, the price is a total scam on Faustus and I am never using the trade site to buy anything that I can use Faustus for instead. So no I ain't spending 100+ chaos every other map for that omen because I die when I get to like 2% exp on lvl99 every time lol, even if I did buy that omen I would still be hard-stuck at 0% exp because of the pointless exp loss.



Exp loss adds 0 stakes, nobody cares about it. It's simply annoying. It's an outdated,archaic and pointless mechanic that just causes frustration and even makes some people ragequit.

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Helldrazi#4560 wrote:

Oh, I get it—you've got it all figured out. XP loss is the ultimate evil in gaming, and we’re all just here to suffer, right? Let me try to unpack your manifesto of grievances while gently reminding you that this is Path of Exile 2. Trust me, as someone who played the "closed beta" (which, of course, we’re absolutely not allowed to talk about wink), I promise you’ll survive this “outdated, archaic” mechanic.

“Nobody playing softcore wants hardcore mechanics!”
Yes, we get it—you didn’t pick hardcore because you don’t want to lose your character. Shocking revelation! But you’re in softcore, not godmode. XP loss is there to remind you that actions still have consequences. Otherwise, why even bother dodging a boss attack? Just face-tank everything, smash your head into the keyboard, and call it “fun.” Sounds thrilling.

“Level 100 isn’t an achievement.”
You’re absolutely right—grinding for weeks to hit level 100 while avoiding dangerous content is totally meaningless. But you know what? People still want to do it. Why? Because some players enjoy the challenge of staying alive long enough to hit max level without devolving into a raging inferno of complaints about how unfair life is. If you think it’s just a “boring grind,” don’t bother going for it. Nobody’s forcing you to get a Mageblood and reenact PoE capitalism in the trade economy.

“Risk doesn’t make the game interesting.”
Oh, sure, risk is pointless. Let’s remove XP loss, death penalties, and maybe bosses entirely. In fact, why don’t we make bosses drop Magebloods for everyone, just for showing up? That’ll definitely keep the game engaging. You’d get bored faster than you could type “Diablo 4 has no XP penalties, and look how exciting that game turned out!”

“Meta builds are a requirement.”
Ah, the age-old complaint: “Meta builds are boring, but I’m still using one.” Look, if you choose to copy the most efficient setup because you want to farm Simulacrums or face bosses with minimal effort, that’s on you. But don’t act like it’s the game’s fault that you’re unwilling to experiment or adapt. If you want to throw random jank builds into endgame content, go for it—but be prepared to pay the price when things don’t go as planned.

“Grinding gear means nothing.”
Yes, grinding for gear doesn’t mean anything, except for the part where it’s literally the entire point of the game. You spend time, effort, and currency building your character because that’s the game. If you don’t like farming, trading, or crafting, then what exactly do you want? A button that just spawns fully kitted-out characters? Go play a private server if that’s your vibe.

“Exp loss is just bad design.”
Yeah, totally—having consequences for dying in an endgame map is so outdated. Why even bother punishing failure at all? You’re right, let’s just let everyone charge into Uber bosses at level 98 with zero stakes. I mean, hey, nobody cares about XP loss, right? They only ragequit because they “love the game so much,” not because they’re unwilling to learn from their mistakes.

XP loss isn’t perfect, but it’s there for a reason. It keeps the game challenging, adds stakes to content, and makes success meaningful. Without it, PoE2 would risk becoming another soulless grindfest like ahem some other games we won’t name. Yes, it’s frustrating. Yes, it can make you want to scream. But trust me, if XP loss is the thing that’s breaking your enjoyment of the game, maybe the problem isn’t the mechanic itself.

And don’t worry—if you keep grinding, dying, and complaining, you’ll eventually hit 0% XP permanently and won’t have to worry about it anymore. Problem solved!

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Does it mean that when you reach level 100 the game loses its interest because you don't have the stakes and the challenge ?

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SilentSymphony#3358 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Does it mean that when you reach level 100 the game loses its interest because you don't have the stakes and the challenge ?

For some people it does, For others its Challenges and so on down the ever growing list of random reasons we use to define as our end goal.

For me, I make all the dead things come back to life a few times and sus them out, Once i've done that the game's over and i just theorycraft for fun with the information i gathered.

On the topic..

I think its good for the game but i also recognize that its a lot of pressure for some individuals and that's why i posted the concept for the omens that reduce exp loss over and over and over and over because the complaints weren't going away and it was basically the only logical game addition without breaking the game logic and they finally added them.

People are still unhappy however and these threads pop up frequently, Removing exp loss entirely would remove too much from the game i feel.

Lowering it? Idk, but total removal is always gonna be at least from me a -1

But I'll +1 an easy mode being added for those that want it.