Experience loss driving some players away?

"

Megiddon wrote:

"

tadl wrote:

And a bigger player base, Sry aiming for one makes for better games right? So you change a game for a particular audience into a Game for a bigger audience = win for the game?

Well they tried this for example with Dead Space 3 and now the franchise got closed. And its by far not the only one that got killed this way.

One mere example, but look at WOW, prolly still has untold playing to this very day. Mind you I could never play a game like WOW. But every business, and this game is a business, should tailor to the largest audience possible in order to ensure they stick around for a long time.

15% is alot, yes I am aware they already lowered and if we're going to sit around listening to hardcore players dictating how a game should be its the equivalent of a restaurant making the spiciest food possible and ONLY the spiciest food possible and utterly refusing to change this because their "fanbase" mocks those who can't handle extremely spicy food. Think that restaurant is going to last long tailoring to their "elite little clique"?

The whole point of an RPG of any type is to feel a sense of accomplishment. This all but comes to a halt in the end game. Not just exp wise, but in orb drops, map drops etc. The fact that orbs are used for currency instead of crafting should say something. They are currently out of balance, eg since March I've seen about as many regals dropping as I have exalts, which is not many.

Death penalty argument aside, catering to the lowest common denominator is NOT good. Sure if youre greedy and all you want is lots of people to give you money, thats the way to go. But we have seen time and time again what crappy games come out of that model. GGG made PoE as a game they want to play, as serious gamers.themselves. PoE belongs to them, and if they want it to be a hardcore game that doesnt appeal to everyone, they will make it succeed as such. Not everything, even success, revolves.around money alone. Selling out their gaming principles will do more harm than good in the long term.

I don't think they care about players who doesn't play hc. In fact, Default league is just a cemetery for hc chars.

I agree....this game is the best ive ever seen...much nicer in my opinion than even diablo 2, but death penalty is unnecessary here...if i leave, death penalty will be the reason.
my two cents

Lets all just hope that GGG doesn't follow the path that Blizzard did. They should cull all the Jay Wilson worshipers soon before they (as a company) end up following the dollar and losing sight of what's most enjoyable and rewarding for the players.

Experience loss is quite forgiving. Before lvl 75 it doesn't matter much and after this you should be more careful

I think itemisation is a key. After grinding maps for a month and finding exactly nothing it is hard to answer: why do I keep playing in the first place? Lets watch some movie instead

The original purpose of this thread was to discuss alternatives to the current XP penalty system. I think a number of players have offered many useful alternative ideas that GGG can consider. I have posted in this thread based on changes to the game that affect the overall play (with my last update relating to the addition of exile rogues in 0.11 and how it affected the risk factor and XP loss; and the reports that some exile rogues can 1-shot people -- my guess is in 72+ maps).

I do find it entertaining some of the hardcore folks decide to participate in this discussion, with one of them saying GGG will "never" change the death penalty. I actually think GGG will change it. What the end-result will be I am not certain, but I think they will address the issue because I already know it's driving players away, and I believe it's driving a substantial number of players away.

What's interesting is if you look at the D3 statistics released by Blizzard, hardcore characters account for less than 10% of all characters (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9691895/diablo-iii%E2%80%99s-one-year-anniversary-infographic-5-20-2013). While I wouldn't be surprised if the number of hardcore players in PoE is slightly higher due to the complexity and challenge level of the game, I doubt it's more than 15%. Until GGG shares statistics, we simply won't know. It could even be lower than 9%.

All evidence points to the fact this game is driven by the softcore player base, which is probably around 90% of the players.

"

poeops wrote:

Softcore players play to mid 80s until they recognize that gaming sessions can actually make your character worse than where it started and rage quit the Path of Frustration.

This is probably the best way I've seen this problem stated, and it's completely accurate. When a gaming session can make your character worse - take away from your efforts - you've got a problem that will drive people away.

"

BuzzMike wrote:

I agree....this game is the best ive ever seen...much nicer in my opinion than even diablo 2, but death penalty is unnecessary here...if i leave, death penalty will be the reason.

This is the other reason I have been active here. If I quit this game it will be because of the penalty as well. Because I am on the fence about committing to playing for months to come due to the penalty, I have put off additional market purchases. I can say right now if there was no experience penalty or it was far less, I would be purchasing more from the marketplace because I'd feel confident I would continue playing the game for quite some time.

I do think there is a substantial chance I'll quit this game much sooner rather than later; all because of the penalty. And remember, I have multiple 80's, so I already have a substantial investment into this game. But why the "fight" in this thread then? Because (except for the penalty) PoE is the best ARPG on the market. If I quit PoE I won't go back to playing D3, TL2, etc. I'll walk away from ARPGs altogether.

I don't want to quit this game, but my friends won't play because of the penalty and if I do quit it'll be because of the penalty, and I know many people have already quit due to the penalty. That is why I am fighting to have it changed. Changing it will make the game better and substantially raise player retention.

GGG Can Datamine the Facts
I think there has been enough participation and feedback for GGG to begin an investigation into their data. The way they can do this is to review the gameplay data by looking at the deaths and the following actions players have taken after death, keeping character level (of the character that died) as a key factor. For example, does the data show after level 67 (for example) that 24% of players log out after a single death and stay away for days, or never even come back? What if 56% of players log out after a single death after L80 and only 67% return whereas level 30 characters that die show 89% resurrect and continue? After all they want people in game as long as possible. Their DBA could easily write a query that presented the facts relative this problem - showing real data beyond a few forum discussions - comparing deaths to logouts (with duration), resurrects and continues, rerolls, etc.

Such a data report would help determine whether or not the penalty does truly drive players away. Of course it doesn't take into account those who won't play because of the penalty in the first place, but it would be a great starting point.

"

Mooginator wrote:

All evidence points to the fact this game is driven by the softcore player base, which is probably around 90% of the players.

And ? Do you think GGG will make big changes to make the "vast majority" happy ? That's how big companies work : more people happy = more money. No, every company doesn't try to get as money as possible by selling their soul.

Death penalty is fun, period.

I'm pretty sure I've written in this thread before although i didn't track it down.

I just wanted to nip in a say a few things.

Formalities first... yes! i am a hardcore player BUT i have plenty of 'normal league' characters which i used to play whilst getting used to the game mechanics.

I only wanted to point out 4 things:

1. The 'this is how many play hardcore' stats are not exactly accurate. You need to bare in mind a lot of things which you have whymsically pushed aside. ie, tons and TONS of toons in normal will be abandoned. Some will be old HC characters. Some will be experiments. Its not a simple 'number of normal toons' vs 'number of hc toons'. Either way, its irrelevent. GGG developed a game they wanted to play and most of them are HC players. :p

2. There are plenty of players who really appreciate the fact there is a death penalty to the degree it is fashioned atm. Personally, i felt the death penalty was too weak and should consume the entire level worth of exp however, when i soon realised the exp at later levels was something close to D2-numbers, then 15% made much more sense.

3. I think there needs to be stimulation in peoples mind as to whether they want the exp loss reduced, the penalty changed altogether or whether they just dont like any form of punishment for death. Remember, some of PoE's players will have never played back in the days of 3 lives and you're out. Or, die and start all over again. Ofcourse we shouldnt be stuck in the past, and we're not, but i just wish people would analyse the situation a bit more.

4. If the death penalty was less severe or non-existent then people would start to go absolutely crazy with dps builds not currently available as they could die their way all the way to the top. This would be HUGELY detrimental to the game and for all those people constantly posting their concerns about the economy, this type of change would render the economy useless.

I'm certainly not hear to tell people not to suggest, or to say that you're wrong. Just a little voice of reason i guess.

Enjoy!

Guys I play WoW and dying is pretty much the end of the world for me. It takes so much time to resurrect, and the repair costs are unbelievable.

I forgot to mention I also play LoL, I can't stand dying in that game either! I lose soo much gold, it's ridiculous!

Games with these ridiculous death penalties are so much fun!

Sarcasm aside, if you complain about a game punishing you when you mess up, well, you need to find some different games because anyone who played games during the classic 90's to early 2k golden age (Yes, those posts that say, "Back when I was a teenager...") will tell you how much better those games were. Please go play Fallout Tactics, that game would like to have a word with you regarding "hardcore".