Experience loss driving some players away?

Except it is

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Except it is

I like how you supported your claim with argumentation, evidence, or any other reason for someone to accept your claim.

I've never seen an argument for "death penalties" in video games that struck me as compelling. My guess, given the number of people who are fans, is that this is one of those personal taste things. One of my friends prefers action games to build/gear games. I tend to prefer games where build is more important than reflex time. But because we're both adults, we've figured out that maybe it's possible for us to like different things.

I personally don't find penalties for dying to be fun. I am not especially concerned, because I'm not particularly close to encountering them in PoE, and may never get around to it; I am not at all sure this'll be a long-term game for me.

I can say that I'd be a lot more likely to play long-term if there weren't penalties for dying, because I prefer games that encourage people to play outside their comfort zones to games that penalize experimentation and reward highly conservative play.

For those of you who haven't seen it, check out Havoc's thread on how he made level 100: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/390491

I wanted to point out two statements which directly relate to this thread:

"

Havoc6 wrote:

Everyone in the group we had essentially quit the game or rerolled new characters due to deaths or boredom.

And...

"

Havoc6 wrote:

As the weeks went on the the new group died down as more and more users quit due to dying at high levels.

This is more evidence the death system causes players to quit the game or abandon their characters.

While the addition of Rogue Exiles is a very cool and innovative feature, I want to note that many people are finding the rogues more stressful and frustrating in Merciless than not (this is in talking to multiple people) because of how difficult they are paired with the death penalty.

One friend said his party of 6 can never do them because they one shot people and just aren't worth it (too risky).

I've found most people in merciless spend time running from exiles rather than engaging them when they are encountered. Make no mistake; this is due to the death penalty, and once again, it angers people.

As a player with multiple 80's and two characters in Merciless Anarchy, I can say while killing exiles can be exciting and rewarding, unless I have just leveled, I usually avoid them altogether and it's irritating because it's not worth the penalty if they do kill me - and the exiles are quite tough in merciless (often too tough to handle, depending on your resistances, flasks, etc).

One example of this issue is I was running the ledge and I encountered the rogue that freezes on hit (note I have never encountered him so I had no idea what his abilities were). One hit, I was frozen for 5-6 seconds; sadly I had just upgraded my flasks to hallowed and didn't have remove frozen yet and my resists were still low. I was spamming my whirling blades - but even doing that he got a second hit in the second the first freeze wore off (actually causing me to freeze mid flight). Bam. Dead with no means of escape at all (I've never been frozen for so long - ever). Granted I immediately upgraded my flasks after this, I still lost 15% experience for no good reason at all without any ability to escape.

All this did was anger me.

This is not a good design GGG. It all comes back to a ridiculous and wholly unnecessary death penalty that is far too harsh in merciless. Please do something about this, especially now that you have added a completely new unpredictable dynamic which can catch a player completely off guard and kill them in no time flat (Rogue Exiles).

Currently LvL 85 Anarchy Ladder Losing 15% Exp To Desnyc/Exile is Very frustrating...

I have hit a brick wall at level 76. Playing for weeks and cannot level up. We need a docks zone that you can easily level up to 100.

I have more or less stopped playing, waiting to see patch notes providing either 1) new zones for XP leveling or 2) changes to experience rates

I do not have much interest in new leagues, GGG missed the mark there catering to the re-rollers. I just like to have 1 good strong character , no re-roll dozens of them.

Get some single toon options , I shouldnt have to re-roll from 1 to have something to do.

Merciless exiles do not one shot. I will admit that I have dies 10 times to exiles, but 7 of those deaths cost me no xp (just levelled, died onece to viper strike exile in a1 merci, dies another 7 times before I killed it due to -60% chaos res).

That are very risky to face and might require a couple of portals to refill flasks, but they do not one shot ever.

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LostForm wrote:

Cant speak for others, but I really like the experience penalty. The experience penalty sets a bar, a target for me to play against. As a self found player, I compete against the environments of the game, and against the ghosts of characters that die to easily to continue leveling up. I am a little too casual to do very well in hardcore league, so the lesser penalty of mired characters fits me very well, and I honestly hope that it doesnt go away or be trivialized.

Agreed, it's extremely annoying to die but having no penalty at all would remove any feeling of challenge in the game.

I'm also too casual for hardcore, and also, if you play with others and die in HC it would basically mean you can't play anymore with them until you've leveled another char which takes too much time. But XP penalty is perfect to keep you on the edge of your seat.

I'm wondering though, I'm only level 76 but I would expect by the time I'm ~85 to die far less often with the better gear/extra passives I have by then? Doesn't that balance the XP penalty?

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Evil_Dutch_Man wrote:

"

LostForm wrote:

Cant speak for others, but I really like the experience penalty. The experience penalty sets a bar, a target for me to play against. As a self found player, I compete against the environments of the game, and against the ghosts of characters that die to easily to continue leveling up. I am a little too casual to do very well in hardcore league, so the lesser penalty of mired characters fits me very well, and I honestly hope that it doesnt go away or be trivialized.

Agreed, it's extremely annoying to die but having no penalty at all would remove any feeling of challenge in the game.

I'm also too casual for hardcore, and also, if you play with others and die in HC it would basically mean you can't play anymore with them until you've leveled another char which takes too much time. But XP penalty is perfect to keep you on the edge of your seat.

I'm wondering though, I'm only level 76 but I would expect by the time I'm ~85 to die far less often with the better gear/extra passives I have by then? Doesn't that balance the XP penalty?

It does not balance it. At level 85 you gain experience much slower, so 15% is worth a lot more. It varies depending on the level of maps you sustain, but I find that XP gain really slows down after level 80.

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Mooginator wrote:

For those of you who haven't seen it, check out Havoc's thread on how he made level 100: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/390491

I wanted to point out two statements which directly relate to this thread:

"

Havoc6 wrote:

Everyone in the group we had essentially quit the game or rerolled new characters due to deaths or boredom.

And...

"

Havoc6 wrote:

As the weeks went on the the new group died down as more and more users quit due to dying at high levels.

This is more evidence the death system causes players to quit the game or abandon their characters.

Maybe because they haven't thoroughly thought out their build, thus why they end up getting owned doing high maps with bad mods, why? Because they play softcore, and most people who play that league, will always try to go as glass cannon as possible, and yet complain about dying doing really hard maps. ^_^

Havoc plays Hardcore now, and most of his friends do.
Experience penalty should stay, GGG does not need to cater to the community, because if they did the game would be total horseshit.
Just my two cents.
:)