Experience loss driving some players away?

@FadeXF

FadeFX, you are an intelligent individual. Tell me your thoughts on this.

Level 69 and lower, you get 1 death per level that you lose no experience.
Level 70-79, 2 deaths.
Level 80-84, 3.
Level 85-89, 4.
Level 90-94, 5.
Level 95-100, 6.

"

rotan wrote:

Exp loss isn't what is driving me away - it's boredom. I keep taking long breaks from PoE - come back and find myself still bored. Waiting for Grim Dawn to get Alpha out so I can get my aarpg hunger met; PoE isn't filling me up anymore...

^ This, but I guess i am more stubborn and really want to 6 LS my bow and get the uber gears, so i keep playing it (while feeling bored).

I'm surprised to hear that XP loss is a panishment. If you die too much, there is something wrong with how you play, that is it.

What next, people refuse to play the game because their character could die?

"

There will be bugs

Am I the only one who reads this on the loading screen?

"

Mooginator wrote:

I am very disappointed nobody from GGG commented on this thread.

Sadly, my wife won't play the game with me due to the XP punishment, and neither will my friend (who was very interested in the game until he found out about the punishment).

GGG... I'd really like to get my friends into this game, but it's obvious the XP punishment is driving them away. I can't blame them. six times the punishment of Diablo 2 is hardly reasonable. Additionally, my wife chimes in on the rare occasion I die (which often results in getting angry and using colorful language) with a "...and that's why I don't play your game..."

So... is there any plan to address the existing XP punishment, or create a new league with no (or a lesser) punishment?

There's nothing wrong with the criticisms you will receive from this post.....the bottom line is that the punishment for death is there for you to improve your character and yourself. Learn to minimize death. In this game, you don't need uber gear to survive, and honestly it is much easier than D2/D3. I don't know how people are dying so much unless they just have terribly constructed builds or don't pay attention to what's going on.

"

FadeXF wrote:

It's simple: even just 1 death at level 75+ is demoralizing and soul crushing.

Well, people who drove away by "loss of XP punishment" are not going to level 75+ in a game, where the highest monster's level is 62. I doubt they pass "normal" in any game

To reaffirm and support what Fade has been saying, I'm currently Level 81 and gaining experience is a long-drawn out tedious process due to the limited number of L70+ maps. I used all my L67-69 maps to get to 81, so I'm back to running 66's.

I was just running a simple blue L66 map, cake for my current build... Ran into a room full of explosion tossing guys; hit my speed and ran out. BAM. Dead in the other room without anything around me and without any sign of damage where I ran to. My guess is I had a desynch and something jammed me at the door, but it didn't visually show. I believe this was my first death since L77.

15% of experience at L81 without good maps amounts to 2+ hours of gameplay for a solo player. This is progression for each massively painful level to get those last passive points. Even without death penalty it takes a good 12+ hours to make a level right now; and this is only at level 81.

HvR has over 1,500 hours of gameplay. Taking the numbers from http://poestatistics.com/users/find/hvr.html we can see he took nearly 200 hours to go from 79 to 91, spending an average of 18 hours per level. Of course it's a growing value so L88 was substantially more than L82, but the point is the "average" time loss for each death >L80 takes ~2.8 hours of gameplay progression. Also note HvR usually runs in groups, so he's pulling in experience bonuses which may be double or more a solo player.

I would venture to guess the majority of players do not have a "friend base" to regularly play in groups at the higher levels, and most people stay away from public groups due to the poor item drop mechanics (which I believe the devs have already said they plan on addressing).

It would probably take a "normal" player (who mainly plays solo) over 2,000 hours to reach level 100. That is without any penalty.

Someone never played Ultima Online lol. Stat loss when rezed as a PK, which was pretty much all my characters. Loss of loot on death. Hell even EQ had exp loss to the point where you could delevel. Nothing like binding yourself then getting stuck in a death loop. Exp loss is nice and prevents you from just zerging areas since mobs dont regen back health unless they have that Affix. Plus there are basically freebie zones like Ledge and Docks so you can just grind out levels till you outlevel/gear the quests then progress through them all.

"

Failsociety wrote:

Could you imagine if games like WoW had Exp loss and deleveling?

Like that would matter when it only takes like 4 days to hit max level with all the exp bonuses in that game from guild perks, gear, and RAF. I think you can have like 400% bonus exp or something retarded like that

"

Thomasmgp wrote:

Someone never played Ultima Online lol. Stat loss when rezed as a PK, which was pretty much all my characters. Loss of loot on death. Hell even EQ had exp loss to the point where you could delevel. Nothing like binding yourself then getting stuck in a death loop. Exp loss is nice and prevents you from just zerging areas since mobs dont regen back health unless they have that Affix. Plus there are basically freebie zones like Ledge and Docks so you can just grind out levels till you outlevel/gear the quests then progress through them all

Yep, agreed. EXP loss is pretty much a "kinder" penalty that I would expect to find in online RPGs. It would be odd if there is no any penalty for death. EXP loss is like a slap on the wrist that says try not to do that again, but it doesn't bring any serious consequences like losing loot and stuff.

"

Hornet85 wrote:

"

Thomasmgp wrote:

Someone never played Ultima Online lol. Stat loss when rezed as a PK, which was pretty much all my characters. Loss of loot on death. Hell even EQ had exp loss to the point where you could delevel. Nothing like binding yourself then getting stuck in a death loop. Exp loss is nice and prevents you from just zerging areas since mobs dont regen back health unless they have that Affix. Plus there are basically freebie zones like Ledge and Docks so you can just grind out levels till you outlevel/gear the quests then progress through them all

Yep, agreed. EXP loss is pretty much a "kinder" penalty that I would expect to find in online RPGs. It would be odd if there is no any penalty for death. EXP loss is like a slap on the wrist that says try not to do that again, but it doesn't bring any serious consequences like losing loot and stuff.

Actually I played UO quite a bit. UO was one of the first true MMOGs on the market (after Meridian 59 and a year and half before Everquest).

That was a different time. There were no alternatives. UO was brutal and had substantial player churning because of its loss and death mechanics. As a matter of fact, to try and keep the player base growing, they created an alternative world that omitted the harsh death mechanics, showing even they realized their penalty/punishment was counterproductive to player acquisition and only appealed to a fraction of gamers.

Regardless, games that enact harsh punishments and penalties of loss drive players away.

If GGG keeps the current death punishment mechanics, they will drive (and already have driven) a substantial number of players away. These are players they could have acquired and kept otherwise; players who would contribute to the marketplace and the financial success of the game. Given the time it takes to reach 100 with a single character, why lose players to a mechanic that's wholly unnecessary?

Would GGG be better off receiving financial contributions by 10,000+ gamers (for example) who now play the game because they are not driven away? GGG could use that money to hire additional programmers and content creation staff. My wife would probably end up buying aesthetic items from the marketplace if she played. My friend would also end up purchasing things like bank slots, etc.

This is lost money. All because GGG thinks taking away a character's progression away when they die is a good idea.

It's not.