Experience loss driving some players away?

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mkmaddage wrote:

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ArionSHFL wrote:

Spoiler

There are people who play this game for fun. It may be designed for a hardcore gamer with number crunching and shit but many people just like to play a game, not dedicate their lives to it.

I work a 40 hour work week and go to school full time. I love being able to get on PoE but can only manage 3-4 hours a week. I'm attracted to this game because of it's complexity. However... if I can only manage to play 3-4 hours a week, i progress very slowly. I have practically zero currency. I love toying with new builds, but my highest character is 61, so i cant run maps and certainly don't have the best gear.

When I get online to try to progress and die once, either by my hand, lag, desynch or whatever... my experience accumulated by by 3-4 hours of game play is gone. That's not fun. I level up super slow and I play a dual totem summoner for the ease.

Call me a casual that loves the complex side of the game but can't dedicate my life to this shit like Kripp or Havoc. Some of you seem to have a problem with that?

My cycle is like this...little time to play = no gearing up = occasional death = no leveling up = no progressing = no gearing up and repeat.

Having a league to play in that casual people could progress through would be great.

Don't hate on people for having a life or being an adult instead of sitting on their fat ass all day like some of you kids.

Ooh - let me have a go at this one lol.

Some of us fat kids aren't hating on you for having a life or being an adult. Some of us fat kids are just saying - great, you want to play a game that rewards you quicker than PoE does (when you put in what I actually consider to be "normal" amounts of play time) - then play a game that does that! There are plenty of games that do that for you.

What I'm arguing (when I put my pizza and coke down and shift my gut to reach mom's keyboard) is that you qqing that 'this game isn't fair to me cos it doesn't give me stuff quick enough and it punishes me for not being good enough' is stupid. I don't have more time than you to play cos mom makes me shave her back every night yet I can accept the slow progress I'm going to make in this game cos I'm focused on the journey, not the orgasm.

If you can't handle the "higher" levels with the experience penalty - and you think your lack of playtime is a reason - then stick to the lower easier levels. The game doesn't have to change for you. If they ever do implement a casual league then expect it to be limited in some way because it's not the original design intent of the game.

Epic.







n00bs: QQ moar.

I think a core consideration here is the fact the death penalty serves absolutely no purpose. If a player is in over their head, they are deterred by the fact they keep dying and have to put time and effort into getting back to where they were. If a player wants to constantly die again and again to defeat one champion or boss, let them. But don't take their time and effort away because they choose to do that.

Also, maps auto-resolve this issue with the limited portal count.

While PoE is not a MMOG, the amount of time, energy and effort that goes into building a character is similar.

Let's bring things into perspective. It takes 6.6 deaths to lose an ENTIRE LEVEL of experience in PoE. Granted most players who are high level and at the 75% mark won't "risk" any adventuring outside of areas they know they can dominate just so they won't lose experience, the inherent nature of the experience penalty system currently in place limits gameplay experience for every player at the higher levels, and even limits what maps they are willing to do with their friends.

"Sorry, too close to level to run that map with you..."

In reality, the Death Penalty just angers people, interferes with the player's experience of content and progression, and serves no purpose of any kind as the existing mechanics of the game already balance progression (e.g. if you try content too hard you'll just die a ton, forcing you to go elsewhere).



Is this really the experience PoE wants to give to non-hardcore gamers?

Its just silly to claim that XP penalty is bad system..... You already play default, i mean.. srs?
Not very constructive but straighforward reply from mad me at this topic.

I hope PoE is a lean-in, gritty, tough, and fun game. I couldn't care less if you get punished or XP loss/loot stolen once in a while. Make it suck a little and make things difficult and get everyone off the 'effort free mash single button for macro' wagon. I can't wait. I don't want carebear, I want to get frustrated and mad once in a while and punch or throw my keyboard or monitor once in a while. You know, stir up some emotion, like a good football or hockey game or whatever.

at least reduce the penalty.

15% for a game WITH DESYNC PROBLEMS is just too much, especially at higher levels.

Way to drive the player base and casuals away GGG! Go you!

this is default. It is mean't to be easy. Not punishing you because you didn't take 100% life nodes

it really is time for adding a new league.

no death penalty

-50% damage taken

higher drop rate of rare currencies

easier linking

100% map drop from unique boss in map.


those should help some casual players.


it's becoming a serious problem, GGG.

those whiners are about to destroy another good game. and i don't wanna see it.

If it wasn't for desync, I would play hardcore. I don't want to deal with the frustration of having a character die to desync though so I play default. The challenge of hardcore and the tension is exciting to me. I love that. If dying doesn't matter...what the hell is the point? Pop a TP every once in a while so you don't lose progress, and then bam, dying means about 15 seconds to run back to where you were. Why would you focus on life nodes? Armor? etc? I mean sure you'd get enough to not die ALL the time, but there's no tension or thrill. You're basically running around in god mode. There's no reason for you to be cautious or concerned about anything. You just go in guns blazing with no nerves about the situation.

That's not very fun to me. I want it to matter that I stayed alive and I want it to matter if I die. I want there to be a difference.

I'm not gonna say you're scrubs or make fun of you for having a life or whatever.

I hate to list out the things I do to prove that I have a life, but I'm going to do it anyway so you can't bring that horse shit up.
I work 40 hours/week (45 if you count the hour lunch that I unfortunately have to take)
I have a girlfriend who I do not live with. I don't make her watch me play video games.
I have a band that practices 3 times per week, one of those days is Sunday where we spend 5-6 hours usually. Now we're recording and I'm the engineer so I'm there for ALL of it, even outside of our typical 3 days.

I play the game for a few hours before bed maybe 3-5 times per week.
I have a level 70 and a 40 something. Dying is a "GOD DAMNIT" kind of moment but I wouldn't have it any other way. I love the item hunt and the constant improvement, and would probably love it even if dying didn't matter, but it just makes the hunt that much better when it means you'll die less, which means you'll lose exp less, which means you'll just do better in the game overall. Isn't that what we all want? To work to make it so that our characters are better?

I understand that everyone wants different things out of games. This game, however, is made for people like me who want the things I listed out of games. Lucky me. Lucky other people who like that. Lucky you, too, though, because there's a shitload of games out there that are less "hardcore" than this one.

I can empathize with something like "but I like this game except for that", in which case...I'm sorry? I mean that sucks, I agree, but you like one thing and other people like another. We won this one. It's not a bad mechanic or stupid. It may very well be driving people away. The overall difficulty of the game probably does that. Just because it's not for the masses doesn't mean they should change that. Good on them, actually, for not changing it. They made the kind of game that they like, not the kind of game that would maximize their players and their money. It's good that the people making this game love this kind of game. It's good for us and I'm sorry it's not good for you. I'm not going to be a dick and call you a noob. You don't enjoy the tension, and maybe the frustration is too much for you, but so it goes.

Also to the guy who said he spends 3-4 hours and then dies and loses all that...and you're level 60 something, you're exaggerating through the roof there. I'm level 70 and I sure as shit don't lose 3-4 hours worth of exp when I die.

TLDR etc etc. I do that a lot.

Also "default is meant to be easy" is just stupid...and I've tried to be nice and civil this whole time. That's just dumb. Why would you want this to be easy. Games like this are about gear and levels. If it's easy, there's no reward for gear/levels. If you want an action game, play something else. This is an action rpg.

i can tell what will happen if they remove death penalty.

next, people will complain that losing progress is not fun.

next, people will complain 6portals in map is not fun.


list keeps going until it becomes like diablo 3.


no thx

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Mooginator wrote:

I think a core consideration here is the fact the death penalty serves absolutely no purpose. If a player is in over their head, they are deterred by the fact they keep dying and have to put time and effort into getting back to where they were. If a player wants to constantly die again and again to defeat one champion or boss, let them. But don't take their time and effort away because they choose to do that.

Spoiler

Also, maps auto-resolve this issue with the limited portal count.

While PoE is not a MMOG, the amount of time, energy and effort that goes into building a character is similar.

Let's bring things into perspective. It takes 6.6 deaths to lose an ENTIRE LEVEL of experience in PoE. Granted most players who are high level and at the 75% mark won't "risk" any adventuring outside of areas they know they can dominate just so they won't lose experience, the inherent nature of the experience penalty system currently in place limits gameplay experience for every player at the higher levels, and even limits what maps they are willing to do with their friends.

"Sorry, too close to level to run that map with you..."

In reality, the Death Penalty just angers people, interferes with the player's experience of content and progression, and serves no purpose of any kind as the existing mechanics of the game already balance progression (e.g. if you try content too hard you'll just die a ton, forcing you to go elsewhere).

Is this really the experience PoE wants to give to non-hardcore gamers?

It doesn't 'serve no purpose' - it is an extra incentive to start stepping up to the real game and learn not to die. If you've gotten that far in Softcore then it's about time you started playing properly and learning how to equip and play your character. Getting that far and then feeling the experience burn so devastatingly means you haven't been playing properly to that point.

Why should the game change for you? They already made Default league so people who don't want to play properly can tootle around in the sandbox. Complaining about the death penalty 'interfering with the player's experience of content and progression' proves that you've lost perspective of what "death" of your character should mean and therefore the xp penalty is warranted. It reminds you that you should be playing 'more carefully' i.e. as if death is actually a negative.

And yes, it probably IS the experience PoE wants to give to non-hardcore gamers - PoE was made for hardcore gamers so it would make sense that casuals will find it 'hard' at some point. (as plenty have said, it's not super hard hardcore anyway)

Edit: ^ ^ ^ what Dudebag said.
Edit2: v v v what DrDeath said.