Tota is easily best League mechanic of all time and it's not even close.

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Ynexounemai wrote:

I disagree. This is completely fun to those first people who know how to abuse the rewards and cheesed them. Then now, every units one shot you, your AI moves stupidly, while your opponent's AI was too accurate on everything.

I never cheesed mechanic. In fact it was the most fun when I didn't knew what to do lol.

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Marcsey wrote:

I hope it goes core. The omens alone were so needed for the casual player. Felt so good to not stress so much on XP loss.

Outside of it being a little ridiculous to do the mechanic itself...the tattoos and omens were a great add.

Please keep this around!

I agree. Omens are awesome. I died on my way to 100 once and because I had Omen of EXP Protection I only lost 2.5% of my EXP.

Yet another reason why Tota is easily bes League mechanic and it's not even close.

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Ynexounemai wrote:

I disagree. This is completely fun to those first people who know how to abuse the rewards and cheesed them. Then now, every units one shot you, your AI moves stupidly, while your opponent's AI was too accurate on everything.

I never cheesed mechanic. In fact it was the most fun when I didn't knew what to do lol.

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Marcsey wrote:

I hope it goes core. The omens alone were so needed for the casual player. Felt so good to not stress so much on XP loss.

Outside of it being a little ridiculous to do the mechanic itself...the tattoos and omens were a great add.

Please keep this around!

I agree. Omens are awesome. I died on my way to 100 once and because I had Omen of EXP Protection I only lost 2.5% of my EXP.

Yet another reason why Tota is easily bes League mechanic and it's not even close.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Not being sure about one correct strategy or best units is definition of deep.

It isn't which is why it isn't deep, none of the things you've listed matter they are speculative strategies trying to project a theme onto content without one. Its missing all of the curation required to make an auto battler have strategies.

You can win just about every round with default melee/navali guys in every slot if you don't get one shot and just jog in a circle around your own totems covering for the bad AI.

and yes it was solved on day 2 players still using the same builds and the same strategies, the fact that somebody has arbitrarily decided fieldmasters don't work as flankers is irrelevant, fieldmasters will win you every round as flankers how much are you looking for here?

There are some fun combinations of items + units you can use to make winning easier but as rewards are fairly random, and units offered are fairly random, and items are fairly random + so many vendors its a mechanic about making the best out of some shit and fixing everything else yourself.

But it isn't like you can run a strategy, because you have no method to run it.

To see depth they would have to remove the chieftain from both sides and change resource acquisition - but of course you'd end up with 20 minute matches fairly regularly as its designed for the player to fix the many holes.

I am trying to get to the crux of your argument. Is it that units and their placeent doesn't matter? But it does. Units have different stats, different abilities, they have different AI. It leads to different outcomes.

>> You can win just about every round with default melee/navali guys in every slot if you don't get one shot and just jog in a circle around your own totems covering for the bad AI. <<

This will take forever or not work at all, because without your help even semi-decent enemy team will infinitely stall your default units and when they die they will take more time to revive everytime and while you are running circles around your totem enemy team will demolish your totems. Also isn't it the same argument as "You can kill Uber Boss with default attack"? Question is why would you do that if it's much harder? Having entire filed of default units and field with good units makes night and day difference.

Why do you continue insisting that it was solved on day 2 when it clearly wasn't as we still not sure what is optimal strategy? I am not even sure about optimal actions of my own character. Fieldmasters will mess with your own team and you a lot of the times. They are not a good flanker. Btw Void Sphere build appeared on week 2 or so. So even that arrived later.

You got a lot of things incorrect. May I ask how far you got in Tota? Something tells me you don't have much experience with it.

>> But it isn't like you can run a strategy, because you have no method to run it. <<

What do you mean? You absolutely can approach Tota from many different angles.

>> To see depth they would have to remove the chieftain from both sides and change resource acquisition - but of course you'd end up with 20 minute matches fairly regularly as its designed for the player to fix the many holes. <<

Ah, so your argument is actually that mechanic is not deep because everything still boils down to player helping his team? But, again, you will have different success with different units, items and idols. So your argument still has no leg to stand on.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

This will take forever or not work at all, because without your help even semi-decent enemy team will infinitely stall your default units

Try it, all it takes to clear the first totems is for unit A to go top right, and unit B to go bottom left and they will get X totems down where X is the number of flankers that went to the side the defenders didn't go to.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Ah, so your argument is actually that mechanic is not deep because everything still boils down to player helping his team? But, again, you will have different success with different units, items and idols. So your argument still has no leg to stand on.

No you won't have different success until you remove the chieftains which is the point, the mechanic was put together in a very short time frame and the chieftains are there to fill the holes which they do admirably but the many features and consistencies that are lacking from an auto battler will become extremely obvious without them.

Its a chaos simulator, and a fun one at that but it isn't deep they have a huge checklist to add before any real strategy beyond "obvious option" becomes possible.

If you want to enlighten me please do with some great strategies you've run but don't give me put damage item on damage dude.

Also void sphere build was on day 1/2 then maximised over the league as players pushed it. Never assume the appearance of a popular build is when its publicised, taunt was even easier auto win until they nerfed it but I wouldn't consider those "solved" anyway they are bypassed.

Solved is a fairly reliable tier/position list for units which hasn't changed since the start except to the players that never experimented to begin with.

basically if you are a mimic it'll never be solved because it can't be, if you went in and dismantled the mechanic it was solved day 2.

Edit: Also they don't have different AI except for wander around lady

I'm gonna drop this anyway Sunl4D2 primarily because I think its been a great league personally and even if I convinced you about the lack of depth in the chaos simulator all that'd be different is one player would enjoy the league less which isn't even a positive outcome.

I hope we see it in the future and they refine/improve it with a few more features and a little less cheese - I will say however I had the same hope for Sanctum and that didn't really pan out though its still good to have it back.

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SunL4D2 wrote:

.

You continue confusing describing things objectively with your opinion, again.

Fun is subjective, doesn't matter what you think. For me it's garbage.

If you actually read what i said, i said everything is rewarding, if you do it long enough. Chances are if anyone does this league or whatever other a few hours a day maximum, you won't get "stacks of divs", not on Tota, not anywhere.

Again, lore depth is meaningless to the game play.

Again, atlas tree gives basically free mechanics that goes in conjunction with the current league, and i'm not even talking about the free increased effect of modifiers of maps, rarity and pack size that absolutely affects how the mechanics in maps are played, which are invalidated by when the mechanic is not in the map.

Being able to "live" in it is also quite a pointless argument when every map has the current league in it. So did, Legion, Blight, Sentinel, Delirium, Scourge, Expedition, Ultimatum, Ritual, etc.....

You didn't raise a single good point and simply is wrong about quite a few things, again.

I won't change your opinion and you won't change mine, those are the only facts. And unless you bring actual facts supported with data that are actually superior to other leagues, everything you say is simply rhetoric. Burden of proof buddy, that's your job, not mine, and "feeling" isn't it.

For this to be the best league ever you really don't want to be playing an ARPG... this league mechanic is not ARPG. Why even bother when there are dedicated games for these mechanics out there. Basically play any moba and you'd pretty much have an even better time. What's next... POE Chess? 1st person shooter? *shrug* At least can we have experiences where all our gear and time spent into building our character actually make sense?

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Durf wrote:

For this to be the best league ever you really don't want to be playing an ARPG... this league mechanic is not ARPG. Why even bother when there are dedicated games for these mechanics out there. Basically play any moba and you'd pretty much have an even better time

Not everyone wants to play yet another Breach clone. GGG adding league mechanics that feel unique and doesn't just boil down to turning your brain off and holding right click until everything dies is perhaps the greatest strength they have.

OP is wrong, but not for the reasons you claim.

ToTa become the best league for those who cheesed it.

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Ynexounemai wrote:

ToTa become the best league for those who cheesed it.

OP is playing Herald of Agony...

Besides, it should be common sense that the people running cheese builds are the ones who clearly DON'T like the league. Because... they're cheesing it? Literally the opposite of gittin gud.

Still sane, exile?