Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Ben_ on why POE1 melee doesn't need POE2 animation to "save melee" - Forum

the funny part is that they introduce vengeant cascade wich is an anoint that gives double damage at minimum. but it s not a numbers problem. vengeant cascade is only there to make the skills looks cooler i suppose omegalol.	Posted by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 4:45:02 AM Quote this Post
" SerialF wrote: " jsuslak313 wrote: I'm not sure why you responded with that...I was agreeing with your whole main point lol. Your entire original post as well as Ben's video describe how dps isn't the problem...its the mechanics. the entire 1 min ben,s video clip is about damage numbers, 243 for cleave 600 for molten strike and according to him sth like 900 easily with available scaling wich cleave has none. what is a non antagonistic way of asking someone to either learn to listen or stop hallucinating things ? He definitely thinks numbers are a significant and low hanging part of the problem and I agree, he also goes on to talk about mechanics as well. Tbh this topic nearly always bogs down in disagreements like this. Along with the age old "melee is just unpossible to fix because its melee" arguments that always get trotted out. BTW later after the clip Ben very much lets his feelings be known about some of these counter arguments people often trot out trying to excuse or dismiss the idea of melee being improved. It would definitely not get past the uber agressive auto moding of the forum so I'll not quote it. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4. If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years.	Posted by alhazred70#2994 on Aug 7, 2023, 4:48:40 AM Quote this Post
" Baharoth15 wrote: I think that's mostly you wanting to take it that way but whatever. My point is that the bitching about melee in this community will never cease. No matter what GGG does and therefor it will never be "good" in the communities eyes. Maybe in the eyes of a few players here and there but not in the eyes of the playerbase as a whole. The fact that people were and are bitching about it even during times where melee skills are at the top of the meta is prove of that. There will always be a bunch of "people" who want to make that leap slamming two handed heavy striker and fail horribly at it because they don't even know how to get stun immunity and then start bitching that melee is bad. And when you point them towards facts like some melee skills being top of the meta they'll just go with the usual "that's not really melee" bullshit. You can make it better, maybe even to a point where some people think it's good, but on a community wide scale it's not going to change anything. so ? you consider lighning strike melee, stuff that hits offsceen ? [Removed by Support] edit: and bitching never stops on any subject in a constantly changing game, but if you cant distinguish expedition/kalandra level of bitching to regular level of bitching, (removed part was here), we can. "on a community wide scale it's not going to change anything". y nothing changes anything. people enjoying playning skills in the game doesnt change anything if there is 10 guy on the forum complaining, the change has failed. got it. Last edited by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:13:55 AM	Posted by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 4:57:36 AM Quote this Post
" alhazred70 wrote: " SerialF wrote: " jsuslak313 wrote: I'm not sure why you responded with that...I was agreeing with your whole main point lol. Your entire original post as well as Ben's video describe how dps isn't the problem...its the mechanics. the entire 1 min ben,s video clip is about damage numbers, 243 for cleave 600 for molten strike and according to him sth like 900 easily with available scaling wich cleave has none. what is a non antagonistic way of asking someone to either learn to listen or stop hallucinating things ? He definitely thinks numbers are a significant and low hanging part of the problem and I agree, he also goes on to talk about mechanics as well. Tbh this topic nearly always bogs down in disagreements like this. Along with the age old "melee is just unpossible to fix because its melee" arguments that always get trotted out. BTW later after the clip Ben very much lets his feelings be known about some of these counter arguments people often trot out trying to excuse or dismiss the idea of melee being improved. It would definitely not get past the uber agressive auto moding of the forum so I'll not quote it. I can see how a competitive person would talk about melee mechanics but since you seem to be a melee enjoyer you know that a lot of people play just to enjoy melee and just want a decent enough experience. And y, always some people coming and saying nothing changes anyything wich is annoying as hell.	Posted by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:00:25 AM Quote this Post
" Baharoth15 wrote: " alhazred70 wrote: you implied that anyone wanting melee buffs is isn't good and that anyone that thinks buffs can make a difference isn't able to see reality correctly. Maybe you didn't realize you were coming across that way. Sometimes when you're addressing a specific statement you trim the parts you're not addressing. This is age old Internet etiquette. I think that's mostly you wanting to take it that way but whatever. My point is that the bitching about melee in this community will never cease. No matter what GGG does and therefor it will never be "good" in the communities eyes. Maybe in the eyes of a few players here and there but not in the eyes of the playerbase as a whole. The fact that people were and are bitching about it even during times where melee skills are at the top of the meta is prove of that. There will always be a bunch of "people" who want to make that leap slamming two handed heavy striker and fail horribly at it because they don't even know how to get stun immunity and then start bitching that melee is bad. And when you point them towards facts like some melee skills being top of the meta they'll just go with the usual "that's not really melee" bullshit. You can make it better, maybe even to a point where some people think it's good, but on a community wide scale it's not going to change anything. [Removed by Support] Well not only do I think it can be massively improved Ben also does. If you say that I'm out of touch, you're also calling anyone who agrees with me the same thing. Is this not obvious? I think its obvious. [Removed by Support] As far as people always complaining, so what, something that's been pretty poor in POE for 10 years should probably have 10 years of complaint threads... Surprising no one: Melee has 10+ years of complaint threads. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4. If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. Last edited by Whai_GGG#0000 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:05:13 AM	Posted by alhazred70#2994 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:01:19 AM Quote this Post
I havent even watched Bens video until now but its spot on. You have a potential 500%+ damage effectivity melee skill and you have a 200% one. Obviously the 200% one is bad and it boils down to the numbers. I think his example was cohesive and concise. It takes a bit of support to get Molten Strike there the only thing that makes it feel bad in terms of clearing aspect that the balls take 0.5 seconds to fall to the ground. Id say if cleave was a 500% damage effectivity skill with some decent AoE (all numerical things) it would be an actual decent skill gem in PoE 1. Probably still not meta by meta clearspeed standards but refreshingly good by melee standard.	Posted by zzang#1847 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:01:28 AM Quote this Post
careful, we re starting to put numbers in threads, people will soon flee the discussion. :D	Posted by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:03:59 AM Quote this Post
" SerialF wrote: so ? you consider lighning strike melee, stuff that hits offsceen ? [Removed by Support] Thank you for proving my point.	Posted by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:12:05 AM Quote this Post
nice dodge of the question. i understand some people like to write hundreds of lines on undefined terms. i can see how those people would not do anything that changes anything.	Posted by SerialF#4835 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:16:40 AM Quote this Post
I am not dodging the question, you are just missing the point. Lightning strike WAS considered good because of it's range and clear. I use past tense here because all they did was to remove half the projectiles and now nobody uses it anymore. So if hitting shit from off screen with multiple projectiles is what's needed for "melee" to be considered "good" in this game how do you plan on fixing it without coming back to your own question of "is this even melee"? So if they gave Cleave a half or full screen AOE, not like you can't have that already but anyway, wouldn't you just ask the same question then? I'll just quote some else here because that guy actually get's it: " ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote: I mean, I can answer why melee is bad in two words: Damage projection. Individual enemies in PoE are so weak compared to the players' power level that the single most important thing for determining a skill's viability is how efficiently it can hit enemies, - be it by hitting more than one at a time, hitting enemies from long range, or maintaining damage uptime. Melee is bad (compared to non-melee options) in all three of these areas. That is the core of the issue why people feel that melee is bad and the only way to solve this is to make it into something that isn't "really melee". It's a paradox, if you fix melee it stops being melee. Hence the whining will continue. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:27:53 AM	Posted by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 7, 2023, 5:26:37 AM Quote this Post