Ben_ on why POE1 melee doesn't need POE2 animation to "save melee"

Removing the scaling on damage would just get us back to where we came from where caster builds all utilized fortify to the same extent as melee did which wasn't a good spot to be in.
Cancelling it on non-melee attacks/spell casts also isn't going to work because every melee build uses spells in form of curses, wave of conviction, guardskills you name it.

Numbers do actually mean a lot, Boneshatter is a prime example. Highest flat damage given to any melee attack, scaling damage multiplier per hit, and around 250% base damage is already way better then the majority of attack based skills. So much so that people are actually able to get through the skill being a "strike" skill.

-Virtually all skills in PoE need to scale better with gem level. Bow and Melee need to have flat damage added.

-Melee skills need to be boosted up in speed. The game moves faster then these old skills. I get that Ice Crash shouldn't be cyclone speed but sitting at 70% is just flat out stupid. Especially when you know your going to slap on Pulverize on this skill. All these skills should be closer to base attack speed of the weapon.

-Dual Wield needs to come back in this game. Stat sticks need to return, these were very fun back in the day. Get rid of the restrictions with off weapons that restrict your ability to use skills if not useable with the weapon.

Varunastra effect needs to be core (rework this weapon if needed) But if I wield a Mace and Dagger, then I can scale damage of the attack with either passives. This would make very interesting ways to scale characters in different sides of the tree then they would originate in.

-More mobility options. I don't need every attack to move me around. Just add some more options to the game. Rework close combat/momentum supports to be more fluid with the game mechanics of PoE. Hitting enemies in close range granting you mobility to dip in and out of combat seems nice but it's so awkward with these 2 supports.

Maybe in a couple more movement skills added. I'd like to see a charge skill with a weapon not shield where you charge foward and deal damage.


I think these are the core things holding back this archetype atm. Yeah some overbalance of skills and there respective AoE. Ancestral Totems need to be more then just walking boss buffs. Fortify needs more impact to it. I still think rage is an awkward melee mechanic, either overpowered when you have infinite or hard to put in your build when most weapons cant get it. Blood magic becoming an archetype for melee to use life for damage, Keystone on tree is useless right now.

I could go on and on about this an I have over the years I've played. I stopped because I thought PoE 2 would be the answer. Sadly now it's not going to be that way.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Removing the scaling on damage would just get us back to where we came from where caster builds all utilized fortify to the same extent as melee did which wasn't a good spot to be in.
Cancelling it on non-melee attacks/spell casts also isn't going to work because every melee build uses spells in form of curses, wave of conviction, guardskills you name it.

I said move fortify to strike/slam gems, not on travel gems like shield charge:)

About cancelling, exception can be made for warcries, guards, blessings, links, etc, it would be simple to do by gem tag. About curses, cancelling was meant on self-casting a spell, not on triggering it, which is how melee builds operate.

Cyclone is not a strike skill too, so if caster build wanted to have access to fortify within limits of my suggestion, they'd have to use actual strike gem, not just shield charge or cyclone as zooming method.

I played a lot of melee since beta days.

Besides durability / DPS comparative issues. I always found it was boss and rare affixes that made melee inferior. I feel it started with the death of Second Wind Shouts then Fortify and the undeniable fact every boss is twice as hard as melee.

People have talked about this forever though. You can't make most melee builds without a damn Abysus, Dual Wield requires too much investment to fill it's role, shields are still busted.

they make content melee can't do well in.

its a pretty low level problem which most other games solve by deciding wither or not their game is melee or ranged focused.

That however doesn't mean this game couldn't achieve a balance between the two, I think it would be much easier than some inside GGG might want it to seem.

perhaps they can't come up with a fix on their own? Maybe its time to clear the way for some thinkers who aren't going to end up killing the game for any particular group rather keep it playable for ALL OF THEM.

poe melee before strong = get stunlocked to death, hard to reach enemies.

poe non melee before strong = safely kite enemies from a distance.



poe non melee experience = oh danger zone, i ll stand over here and keep shooting to avoid it.

poe melee = ah fibonacci, boss is standing on danger zone. gotta lure him away and stop doing damage

also poe melee = ah fibonacci, the danger zone is huge, guess i ll chill over here doing nothing while the boss messes around.


what i learned playing properly in sanctum league:

poe non melee experience = i point, i shoot, the character will turn enough to shoot the enemy

poe melee strike experience = i walk behind enemy, i click at enemy, i turn around, but if im facing too far away from the enemy, character does not turn around enough, thus i swing my weapon into mid air. totally missing the attack/enemy

this can be solved with ancestral call/additional strike targets.



also if i m gonna nitpick on melee, melee movement skills are simply inferior.

spells "teleport", melee movements "dash".

if you're in a sanctum lazer gauntlet you can TP to the other side using a spell, but if you dash thru, it's considered a hit.

objectively melee is bad.

You see people are using Bone Shatter as an example of Melee only requiring damage to be better. But Bone Shatter literally works by being more tanky. It gives damage with a cost of hurting yourself. Thus if you don't build tanky you will die. And if you do build tanky none of your damage is really sacrificed thanks to the high base numbers.

Now this will fix maybe marauder Melee because their whole thing is hit hard hit once but what about every other class whose whole thing is hitting faster and faster. It means that melee is forced to only use armour as a defensive option because evasion can't work in the same capacity, you can't evade self damage. So a lot of melee builds will still be bad, only a handful will feel better.

So instead of making every skill like Boneshatter giving it a bunch of purposeless damage, instead lets find a unique way to make every skill feel better to use.

Like most melee skills suck because you have to stand in place so how about we make skills more rewarding to stand in place with. Like Cleave can start out with a lot more AOE without compromising its damage too much, but if you stand still and attack the AOE will get smaller and smaller, but the damage goes way up and its accuracy so you will be able to mow bosses when they are in a mechanic, making it better overall for both clear and st damage.

Viper strike like someone mentioned can have its poison spread to other enemies with half of its effects in a certain AOE, so you don't have to stand and hit one target, you can just hit one a couple of times to kill a pack then move on to the next pack, to the next pack without needing to stand still for too long. And maybe for bosses you can increase the range of viper strike for the number of stacks there are on the boss so it feels better to level with.

Just give melee ramping up effects instead that reward you for using them rather than punishing you for standing still.

If we really want to fix melee, and I mean actual melee, not "melee but I'm hitting you from half a screen away," GGG needs to give up on melee = I can reach out and touch the mob with my hand.

Change Ancestral Call and Melee Splash supports to be positive damage multipliers, not damage penalties. Make both available to everyone in Act 1. They already only work for strike skills AND strike skills alone need help. So instead of messing around with complex rules for when Fortify works, just make AC and MS give at least the same damage bonus as Fortify Support if not more.

Yes, everyone playing strikes will play those if you make them strong enough supports but we need to get away from thinking that is a bad thing because let's be honest, how much diversity in supports is there really in practice? No matter the build, there is exactly ONE optimal support set and everyone plays that. Mind you, this is not all melee needs but this would be the simplest first step in my view to making actual melee viable.

I feel a huge problem is the majority of players who try melee when it unlocks in the campaign will very quickly realize it sucks at that point, swap to something else, and never look back. How many of those people when they get to L60 or so will look back and say, "Gee maybe I should try that skill that sucked at L1 again"?

The community as a group has already provided more good suggestions for melee improvements than any developer deserves, they simply aren't interested.

Its their loss but i'd give up on it. They already know its not the animations lol

Melee is fine, monster design isn't. Sirus and Sanctum as a league give (non-cyclone) melee only 20-30% of the dps uptime of other builds, that's the unfair part IMO. I have no issues playing any melee skill in the campaign or maps.