I'm sick of zoom meta. (Speed creep created bad combat and game balance)

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Sukhoi_01 wrote:

While I hope PoE2 is more of a standard ARPG with more than one ability and an entire build set around maximizing the damage of that one build concept(which i do still enjoy, i personally really like PoE as it is.) and the zoom factor, etc etc... I do still want the game to speed up the further you go. One of the worst feelings in these games is when you start a new character/league and have to move at a snails pace early on. One of the first things I do with a character is sort out some kind of movement speed. either double quicksilver or decent boots, etc. I don't want that all the way through the game. It doesn't need to be as fast as shield charging through everything or Maximized QOTF as everything with a red health bar explodes on and off the screen but at the least some way to scale movement speed so i can at least feel like my character didn't just wake up and stub their toe.

I think it will certainly not keep you at a snails pace, you need reactive combat in some way.

If you don't like the zoom meta don't play it and play something else like ruthless. Fact to the matter is vast majority of the playerbase doesn't play ruthless, because they don't enjoy being gimped to the ground.

Playing an LA deadeye this league was the most fun I've had in a long while and the progression felt meaningful, and not like I had to sweat blood and sacrifice a lamb to be able to accomplish the same goal with crap gear over the course of 3 months or more to be able to do anything remotely close to what you can accomplish in a non-ruthless scenario.

I'm perfectly fine with having hardcore as a game mode and ruthless as a game mode and ssf as a game mode it's all about choices and it's what this game is famous for...but that's why they're separate...I don't think the zoom meta is a disease and nither is the opposite and one shouldn't overshadow the other nor should it make changes to how the other is played.

Diversity is one of the game's most appealing and distinctive aspects and it shouldn't be diluted.
Just my 2cents

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nelix87 wrote:

If you don't like the zoom meta don't play it and play something else like ruthless. Fact to the matter is vast majority of the playerbase doesn't play ruthless, because they don't enjoy being gimped to the ground.

Playing an LA deadeye this league was the most fun I've had in a long while and the progression felt meaningful, and not like I had to sweat blood and sacrifice a lamb to be able to accomplish the same goal with crap gear over the course of 3 months or more to be able to do anything remotely close to what you can accomplish in a non-ruthless scenario.

I'm perfectly fine with having hardcore as a game mode and ruthless as a game mode and ssf as a game mode it's all about choices and it's what this game is famous for...but that's why they're separate...I don't think the zoom meta is a disease and nither is the opposite and one shouldn't overshadow the other nor should it make changes to how the other is played.

Diversity is one of the game's most appealing and distinctive aspects and it shouldn't be diluted.
Just my 2cents

I felt the same way 5-6 years ago, but it waned over time for me personally. DOUBLY so when D2R came out. Hardcore with the squad is heckin awesome. (our group avoids enigma and sorc tele spam unless its a really dumb gap though, not like the problems arent present there!)

Luckily for the both of us, PoE will become split between 1 and 2, and fingers crossed GGG actually sticks with the vision in PoE2, while keeping people who prefer the zoom happy with PoE1!

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SilentSymphony wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

If I'm GGG I flinch every time I see someone on my forums suggest that paying customers "go play something else if you aren't perfectly happy". If I were to ever make a game (maybe some day in retirement when AI gets even better) I would literally have TOS rules against posts like that.

We're all in the same Boat chucking water to stop it from flooding but instead of throwing it off the side some of us are throwing it at each other while the ship sinks faster.

Just trying to enjoy the game in our own shades of grey hoping one doesn't overtake the other to the point we aren't having fun anymore, I don't think anyone wants a future like that especially not one where people are so casually stating stuff like you said there alhazred70.

Truly almost made me cry to really think about how bad it has gotten recently, Please anyone who reads this post.. Pretty Please try to see from other exiles PoV when possible, I know people don't always make it easy.

In the end the allies you'll forge from those you thought enemy's when communication happens and the drama falls to the side will be worth it so much more than the alternative outcomes.

Well put. The game splitting was best case scenario for me, I did not want to subject the zoomers to my groups definition of fun.

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

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Sukhoi_01 wrote:

While I hope PoE2 is more of a standard ARPG with more than one ability and an entire build set around maximizing the damage of that one build concept(which i do still enjoy, i personally really like PoE as it is.) and the zoom factor, etc etc... I do still want the game to speed up the further you go. One of the worst feelings in these games is when you start a new character/league and have to move at a snails pace early on. One of the first things I do with a character is sort out some kind of movement speed. either double quicksilver or decent boots, etc. I don't want that all the way through the game. It doesn't need to be as fast as shield charging through everything or Maximized QOTF as everything with a red health bar explodes on and off the screen but at the least some way to scale movement speed so i can at least feel like my character didn't just wake up and stub their toe.

I think it will certainly not keep you at a snails pace, you need reactive combat in some way.

for the type of ARPG PoE2 is shaping up to be I don't think we'll have to worry about zoom meta becoming a thing, but people will always want to maximize their time in the game, which will inherently mean finding the fastest builds. I want the game to provide the min-max for bossfight combat to be similar to what was shown in the demos at Exilecon. I want the bossfights to feel meaningful and challenging, but I don't necessarily have an issue with people using their biggest skill that can kill everything to clear and then speeding through to the next group of monsters. As long as it feels good to play and doesn't get out of control. I want a contrasting game to PoE1, which I hope doesn't just maintain its speed meta but leans into it. I find both fun.

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Sukhoi_01 wrote:

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Kaboinglefop wrote:

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Sukhoi_01 wrote:

While I hope PoE2 is more of a standard ARPG with more than one ability and an entire build set around maximizing the damage of that one build concept(which i do still enjoy, i personally really like PoE as it is.) and the zoom factor, etc etc... I do still want the game to speed up the further you go. One of the worst feelings in these games is when you start a new character/league and have to move at a snails pace early on. One of the first things I do with a character is sort out some kind of movement speed. either double quicksilver or decent boots, etc. I don't want that all the way through the game. It doesn't need to be as fast as shield charging through everything or Maximized QOTF as everything with a red health bar explodes on and off the screen but at the least some way to scale movement speed so i can at least feel like my character didn't just wake up and stub their toe.

I think it will certainly not keep you at a snails pace, you need reactive combat in some way.

for the type of ARPG PoE2 is shaping up to be I don't think we'll have to worry about zoom meta becoming a thing, but people will always want to maximize their time in the game, which will inherently mean finding the fastest builds. I want the game to provide the min-max for bossfight combat to be similar to what was shown in the demos at Exilecon. I want the bossfights to feel meaningful and challenging, but I don't necessarily have an issue with people using their biggest skill that can kill everything to clear and then speeding through to the next group of monsters. As long as it feels good to play and doesn't get out of control. I want a contrasting game to PoE1, which I hope doesn't just maintain its speed meta but leans into it. I find both fun.

Kind of agree here honestly. I also hope for more cool fun combinations and synergies between classes for party play. Playing D2R HC Ladder start with party is awesome especially if you go for something off meta.

Pretty much had to play some giga-dps party set up this league for the empowered league mechanic stacked mobs. Otherwise we'd be skipping league mechanic.

overall a good league, but i think monster speed/dmg/hp needs to be toned down, as well as player speed.

GGG - now that you are observing player feedback for PoE2, please stay true to what Jonathan said at exilecon... SPEED CREEP is a problem!

The clear speed in this game has mostly removed combat. Instakilling a bunch of shit is not combat. Combat is where you fight a monster, and both you and the monster are doing stuff. That barely exists in PoE at this point. It exists only for those who don't play meta builds.

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Miathan51 wrote:

The clear speed in this game has mostly removed combat. Instakilling a bunch of shit is not combat. Combat is where you fight a monster, and both you and the monster are doing stuff. That barely exists in PoE at this point. It exists only for those who don't play meta builds.

Although I agree, friends and I have experimented with a lot of the new skills in different forms.

All builds converge to killing as much things as effortlessly as possible, unfortunately. It has been this way for years and years and years.. the game just did not have as many ways to do it back then.

But seeing your axiom supporter pack, I'm sure you know as much.

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Miathan51 wrote:

The clear speed in this game has mostly removed combat. Instakilling a bunch of shit is not combat. Combat is where you fight a monster, and both you and the monster are doing stuff. That barely exists in PoE at this point. It exists only for those who don't play meta builds.

Very well said. It's insane to me how a lot of people still try to call it good gameplay when even Jonathan himself said the combat of PoE1 is bad.