I'm sick of zoom meta. (Speed creep created bad combat and game balance)

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alhazred70 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

then play grim dawn, last epoch or diablo 4? why are people asking ggg to get rid of the zoom zoom meta when it's one of the biggest things that make poe unique and good?

if you like slow games, go ahead and play slow games instead of complaining, duh

Someone's not heard the news? I mean I get it not everyone follows games they play closely but you would think someone invested enough to post on a forum would also know that there's going to be 2 different POE experiences to choose from.

Personally I have my reservations (and hope to be wrong about them) but If I'm GGG I am absolutely finding ways to keep both the zoom zoom and the boom boom and have more impactful combat and learn from POE1's mistakes as much as possible to make a better game filled with custom tailoring.

If I'm GGG I flinch every time I see someone on my forums suggest that paying customers "go play something else if you aren't perfectly happy". If I were to ever make a game (maybe some day in retirement when AI gets even better) I would literally have TOS rules against posts like that.

this isn't a valid argument because poe 1 will be mostly dead for non-ssf players after poe 2's full release. you'll barely be able to trade for anything you need, as it currently takes about a month and a half for the challenge leagues to die and it'll take even less time when poe 2 is out

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Grendahl wrote:

Which of course is my second and most consisted piece of feedback, the game is not rewarding for solo players at lower power levels. I get that they want to prevent bots from making everything dirt cheap, and I get that the zoomiest group players kill the league boss by the end of the first week. Most players would rather grind for their gear than having to buy it. This is a place that POE has always been weak as compared with other looter games.

...but now I'm way off topic.

I would love for POE2 to be a game that rewards methodical game play and that rewards players play this way.

This is probably my biggest fear, POE2's slow engaging multi button combo gameplay with drop rates from POE1.

One thing I very much find fault with in GGG is that they seem have a dishonest or simply fake idea of what "risk vs reward" is anyone who plays other games knows POE's loot RNG is arguably worse tuned than any major game thats not a "Korean Grinder MMO".

I cringe EVERY time a GGG persons says risk vs reward. its a meaningless buzzword when they use it.

Unless you consider extreme likelihood of instantly falling over for hours on end for a .001% chance of finding a good item to be a intellectually honest use of the term.

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auspexa wrote:

this isn't a valid argument because poe 1 will be mostly dead for non-ssf players after poe 2's full release. you'll barely be able to trade for anything you need, as it currently takes about a month and a half for the challenge leagues to die and it'll take even less time when poe 2 is out

this remains to be seen, you're just assuming these things. Trade league "dies" after 4-5 weeks already. 8 to 10 weeks after a POE1 league start (4 weeks after everyones already typed "dead league" a hundred times in chat per day) you'll have a POE2 league start and then 8-10 weeks later a new POE1 league. Or at least thats what they are selling (I'm not at all confident about that myself).

I think there are clear "FOMO overload" concerns, but you guys and your "league is dead I can't find 100 gilded fossils to spam at 3am" are always doing this even with 3 month leagues and no competition.

I have my own problems with this new paradigm, but there will be a zoomy and a boomy version so telling people to go play something else is a little pointless don't you think?

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alhazred70 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

this isn't a valid argument because poe 1 will be mostly dead for non-ssf players after poe 2's full release. you'll barely be able to trade for anything you need, as it currently takes about a month and a half for the challenge leagues to die and it'll take even less time when poe 2 is out

this remains to be seen, you're just assuming these things. Trade league "dies" after 4-5 weeks already. 8 to 10 weeks after a POE1 league start (4 weeks after everyones already typed "dead league" a hundred times in chat per day) you'll have a POE2 league start and then 8-10 weeks later a new POE1 league. Or at least thats what they are selling (I'm not at all confident about that myself).

I think there are clear "FOMO overload" concerns, but you guys and your "league is dead I can't find 100 gilded fossils to spam at 3am" are always doing this even with 3 month leagues and no competition.

I have my own problems with this new paradigm, but there will be a zoomy and a boomy version so telling people to go play something else is a little pointless don't you think?

it's not pointless when other games readily offer what these people want.

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auspexa wrote:

then play grim dawn, last epoch or diablo 4? why are people asking ggg to get rid of the zoom zoom meta when it's one of the biggest things that make poe unique and good?

if you like slow games, go ahead and play slow games instead of complaining, duh

PoE is a combination of many unique things. Whether each unique thing makes it good or not is down to personal taste.

I personally play PoE for the infinite build depth, the complexity of interlocking systems, the sheer amount of content, the atmosphere and lore, the strange skill and item interactions that take actual effort and theorycrafting to find.

I play PoE all of that, but I don't enjoy the speed and the moment-to-moment gameplay. That's a detriment to my enjoyment. Still, I like it much, much more than LE, GD and Diablo 4 for the reasons above.

I don't think you're wrong to prefer zoom meta; it's your taste, and that's cool. I just hope this helps you empathize with why some people like me are over the moon at PoE2, because it carries forward the things we love about PoE1 (enhances them even) but fixes exactly the parts that we've always had trouble with.

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Falcord wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

then play grim dawn, last epoch or diablo 4? why are people asking ggg to get rid of the zoom zoom meta when it's one of the biggest things that make poe unique and good?

if you like slow games, go ahead and play slow games instead of complaining, duh

PoE is a combination of many unique things. Whether each unique thing makes it good or not is down to personal taste.

I personally play PoE for the infinite build depth, the complexity of interlocking systems, the sheer amount of content, the atmosphere and lore, the strange skill and item interactions that take actual effort and theorycrafting to find.

I play PoE all of that, but I don't enjoy the speed and the moment-to-moment gameplay. That's a detriment to my enjoyment. Still, I like it much, much more than LE, GD and Diablo 4 for the reasons above.

I don't think you're wrong to prefer zoom meta; it's your taste, and that's cool. I just hope this helps you empathize with why some people like me are over the moon at PoE2, because it carries forward the things we love about PoE1 (enhances them even) but fixes exactly the parts that we've always had trouble with.

couldn't have said it better myself.

bravo GGG for splitting the games. let the zoomers zoom, and let us who love the deliberate and meaningful combat have our own playground :)
1HP 0DPS 45 minute boss kills sound fun. I loved DS2 SOTFS SL1 no bonfire playthrough

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alhazred70 wrote:

If I were to ever make a game (maybe some day in retirement when AI gets even better) I would literally have TOS rules against posts like that.

I am sure your hypothetical community will thrive, if they can't even tell someone "if you want XYZ, go play ABC, because this game doesn't have that (yet/anymore)".

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alhazred70 wrote:

If I'm GGG I flinch every time I see someone on my forums suggest that paying customers "go play something else if you aren't perfectly happy". If I were to ever make a game (maybe some day in retirement when AI gets even better) I would literally have TOS rules against posts like that.

We're all in the same Boat chucking water to stop it from flooding but instead of throwing it off the side some of us are throwing it at each other while the ship sinks faster.

Just trying to enjoy the game in our own shades of grey hoping one doesn't overtake the other to the point we aren't having fun anymore, I don't think anyone wants a future like that especially not one where people are so casually stating stuff like you said there alhazred70.

Truly almost made me cry to really think about how bad it has gotten recently, Please anyone who reads this post.. Pretty Please try to see from other exiles PoV when possible, I know people don't always make it easy.

In the end the allies you'll forge from those you thought enemy's when communication happens and the drama falls to the side will be worth it so much more than the alternative outcomes.

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alhazred70 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

then play grim dawn, last epoch or diablo 4? why are people asking ggg to get rid of the zoom zoom meta when it's one of the biggest things that make poe unique and good?

if you like slow games, go ahead and play slow games instead of complaining, duh

Someone's not heard the news? I mean I get it not everyone follows games they play closely but you would think someone invested enough to post on a forum would also know that there's going to be 2 different POE experiences to choose from.

Personally I have my reservations (and hope to be wrong about them) but If I'm GGG I am absolutely finding ways to keep both the zoom zoom and the boom boom and have more impactful combat and learn from POE1's mistakes as much as possible to make a better game filled with custom tailoring.

If I'm GGG I flinch every time I see someone on my forums suggest that paying customers "go play something else if you aren't perfectly happy". If I were to ever make a game (maybe some day in retirement when AI gets even better) I would literally have TOS rules against posts like that.

Absolutely. I'm over the moon with them splitting the game!

While I hope PoE2 is more of a standard ARPG with more than one ability and an entire build set around maximizing the damage of that one build concept(which i do still enjoy, i personally really like PoE as it is.) and the zoom factor, etc etc... I do still want the game to speed up the further you go. One of the worst feelings in these games is when you start a new character/league and have to move at a snails pace early on. One of the first things I do with a character is sort out some kind of movement speed. either double quicksilver or decent boots, etc. I don't want that all the way through the game. It doesn't need to be as fast as shield charging through everything or Maximized QOTF as everything with a red health bar explodes on and off the screen but at the least some way to scale movement speed so i can at least feel like my character didn't just wake up and stub their toe.