I'm pretty sure I've had enough...

You can definitely build a character in PoE to be nearly immortal with enough currency.

My current character for the season has great defence and enough damage to do anything in the game from sim30 to Uber bosses and the only time I die is Uber bosses when I don't dodge something I need to.

D4 on the other hand I doubt you can ever build a character close to this, sure you could probably do everything in the game but never reach the level to do it as easy.

So I would say PoE is a good spot at the moment, it is always good to give feedback though to help make the game better and threads like this are important.

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AintCare wrote:

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

Nobody dies in T1 maps with a semi-decent char but if it isn't decent.

It will die so are you deninal that you can't make a semi-decent char or do you mindlessly super rare it up do tri-damage mods then blame the game while making a post like this?

Likely.

yeah i think we have a problem with defining 'decent'... you can def die in t1 map while being able to clear red maps. agian, im not sure what game you playing, or what are you pretending here. this game doesn't have moments of -'oooh my hp went down to 30%' panic moments.... its either you are alive or dead. even when i get hit and have 1% health left i'm not scared, i just feel lucky, and most of the time i dont even see the HP bar deplete, since it goes up and down faster that it can display

Make a half-decent char then nobody dies like that hell even a fucking 3k glass cannon LA char doesn't die in t1 maps lmao

You're telling me your more glass than a fucking LA char? OP wanted to learn but people like yourself go NOPE IT'S THE GAMES FAULT! No it's yours and yours only like once more as I've told the OP and he actually did how about YOU open your char tab and I'll 100% dissect it and it's probably going to be pure glass ''JEE WHY AM I DYING!''

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Baharoth15 wrote:

That being said, if you alch + vaal your white maps, stand near strongboxes with DD after opening, miss a CE effect from a revenant or fail to notice one of the dozens of on death effects it is very much possible to die even for a decent char.

Correct. And maybe I'm speaking just for myself here, but I don't want a game where a "decent build" can't die to player mistakes/lack of concentration during progression. Sure, when your build is "finished", and you've invested a decent amount of time and effort into the build, some builds can become practically immortal - that's fine.

If "good defenses" mean "can survive every player mistake", I think a lot of people are misunderstanding each other in this thread.

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AintCare wrote:

I always play tank builds, i loose tons on dps due to that, and I die because of that actually, ubers are impossible because you WILL get one shot, so you have to minimize the time spent during the fight....

There are countless videos on youtube showcasing builds afking ubers and the defensive mechanics needed for that aren't even that expensive. It's not as easy as "invest a lot into defense and be immortal though" you need to know what you are doing and more importanly, what you want to accomplish. Pretty much any defensive setup has some weakspot.

That's what i meant when i said every build has a weakspot. Yes, no matter what you do there is a possible combination of mechanics somewhere that can pop you on the spot. The trick is being aware of those and avoiding them. You can reduce the number of things that can pop you instantly to a very reasonable number if you want to.

If you are expecting complete foolproof immortality then yeah, that doesn't exist and it shouldn't. But that doesn't make defenses useless by any means. Plus you are acting like any tanky build will get constantly oneshot in white maps here which simply isn't the case. If you die every other map you are either beyond reckless with map mods or not really tanky.

Well, meta builds are pretty much all glass cannons, that's nothing new. Just look at POE ninja and all the stuff there, 3k life with capped resists is on the higher end of tankyness there.

And yes, IF you can get enough DPS and clear then it's the best defensive layer, especially for bosses. But it's a very binary way of making builds. Have enough DPS and you are untouchable or don't and die 5 times per map/boss. If you just aim to make a balanced build from the start you might not get to just instadelete bosses but you also won't die instantly something farts in your approximate direction, you can even get away unscathed when making missplays.

So yeah, i'd question if it's really wiser to just make glass cannons, it's an all or nothing gamble at the end of the day and when we talk stuff like Simulacrum that gamble is borderline impossible to pull off in the first place.

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AintCare wrote:

glass cannons are more safe because they kill before anything can touch them.... you just proving my point, its either you one shot them or they one shot you.

ROFL and you wonder why you die in T1 map

NO NO YOU proved my point ZERO defenses whatsoever nothing AT ALL not even a spark HEY GUYS WHY AM I DYING IN A T1 map? Oh I don't know bobby why? I have 3k hp and literally no evasion no armor reduction hell all my flask are offensive too!

OH NO I DIED WHY IS THAT? Why did I do a a rare map with so many damage mods and I'm made out of soft-lime glass timmy what happens?

A tumbleweed hits the guy and he just dies!

''Further proven my point''

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AintCare wrote:

i don't even know what the last paragraph means. I always play tank builds, i loose tons on dps due to that, and I die because of that actually, ubers are impossible because you WILL get one shot, so you have to minimize the time spent during the fight.... this was the issue before the hard caps of res etc. Saying to stay in low tier maps till you min max your build because you are safe there is an illusion.

I feel we're moving the goal post here, bringing in ubers. They are supposed to be close to impossible for 'most' people.

And what is a "tank build"? A decent/good build in PoE, has a nice balance between offense and defense. Going full out on damage (glass cannon) will eventually get you killed because of mitigation. Going full out on defense (tank?) will get you killed because you can't kill stuff fast enough and get overrun. The answer is always somewhere in between - IF leveling to 100 without cheesing it is your goal.

Is the weighting in PoE too much in favor of offense? Maybe. But you have some sick defensive options these days.

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AintCare wrote:

Uhm, if you have a class cannon you WILL kill the uber within 5 portals, if you don't output enough DPS in your 'balanced' build ... you wont. That is why I don't touch ubers

Having a glass cannon doesn't mean that you've got enough damage for ubers, everyone and their mother would be killing ubers if it was that easy. And at least some of the ubers can be killed with like 2 mio dps if you've got the defense/skill for it, not all of them have enrage mechanics.

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AintCare wrote:

I don't die in a t1 map- my build is not 'decent'. I can rofl through t16, yet I fail most DPS checks- aka ubers

I'm having trouble keeping track of whether you do or do not die in T1 maps. Last I heard was that everyone can get 1 shot in a T1 map and now this?

Anyway to get back to the big picture like tropical fruit doggo said pages ago this is a thread where the OP was honestly looking to learn and improve (and again I commend the great attitude) and posts like yours do a disservice to both the player and the game when you come in and tell them that maps are hopeless, you can't get tanky, you're always gonna get 1 shot, even if you do get tanky you'll have 0 dps, everything is the game's fault and on and on.

It's just not so.