My recap of PoE vs D4 and why even still PoE is unmatched

I'm not trying to force an opinion, in fact it's the opposite in this case. Im defending the position that an alternative take on D4 is out there, comparative to what is being discussed here.

Even in terms of PoE you and Ms. Doggy are in the EXTREME minority of players. It's quite frankly unsurprising that D4 isnt a satisfying game for you.

Im merely stating that D4 is being widely enjoyed by a larger swath of players. Are there issues? Yes, of course. But not even remotely as dire as a niche PoE elite would indicate.

Just going to chime in.

For all the hate d3 gets in the forum, more people like it then poe. It has more players and more favorable reviews.

It is the best selling arpg of all time. 6 million units the first week. Around 65 million total.

Hell the first year they had an average of 2 million players online at the same time. That first year also had 5 million concurrent players. Think about how much poe servers fail when their absolute peak was 300k.

These stats may differ between sites, but ffs accept that a game with board appeal has had a better reception then a very niche tedious grinding game with practically zero new player onboarding.

What d3 and d4 offer are very nice campaigns and decent combat. Visually clear, sometimes stressful. Skills that combo into each other. And pretty good boss fights.

Poe does this and adds a huge grind, hides stats from the player, and has density that breaks the server.

What I am saying is that d3 isnt the best, but it is not the worst.

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e1337donkey wrote:

Why are we comparing a game that has had like 10 years of updates/patches/expansions/etc to a game that just came out. Of course it's going to be shallow in comparison.

Because some D4 people feel the need to do it. You don't see POE players pestering around other games communities saying how much better POE is.

I don't buy the lack of content just because it just came out, not when it's made by a company with millions at its disposal. I mean, look at the quality of those cinematics and the amount of money they spent on marketing. Are you really comparing the state of a niche indie game at launch with that?

The fact is they're not even in the same league. One is casual, the other one is not. People can enjoy both. If it wasn't for the blizzboys "predicting" D4 would kill POE when the beta started, threads like this wouldn't even exist.

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roundishcap wrote:

It is the best selling arpg of all time. 6 million units the first week. Around 65 million total.

More hotdogs are sold every day than ribeye steaks, that doesn't make the former a better tasting or higher quality product.

And these comparisons of D4 launch to PoE launch has to be the funniest joke I've seen on these forums. Assuming D4 had a team of 200 which is probably underestimating it by 50-100%, and each person has 10 years of industry experience that would mean D4 had literally 2 millennia of game dev experience + a budget larger than the size of a small country's GDP. I think its ok to expect a good end game.

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innervation wrote:

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roundishcap wrote:

It is the best selling arpg of all time. 6 million units the first week. Around 65 million total.

More hotdogs are sold every day than ribeye steaks, that doesn't make the former a better tasting or higher quality product.

And these comparisons of D4 launch to PoE launch has to be the funniest joke I've seen on these forums. Assuming D4 had a team of 200 which is probably underestimating it by 50-100%, and each person has 10 years of industry experience that would mean D4 had literally 2 millennia of game dev experience + a budget larger than the size of a small country's GDP. I think its ok to expect a good end game.

Spoiler

They then took those resources and 10 years and turned them into a game priced higher than market for premium AAA releases, and did you the favor of including battlepasses and MTX with prices that rival their f2p competitors lol

Whats your point?

Some people are fine with the endgame in D4, some are not. Who is to say who is more right? You? Please at least acknowledge the inherent bias.

Who says that only steaks are ever good, no one likes a hot dog? Or that someone even has the ability to invest in a full steak diet only? And relating PoE to steak in this scenario is wildly subjective (and funny) Plenty of people would consider D4 the steak, and PoE some lavish, bizzare, sushi meal, or odd foreign delicacy. PoE is far less relatable to the masses, that doesnt make it good by default, that's super flawed logic.

Video game sales are a measurement of the amount of people convinced they will like something not how good it actually is. In fact, sales can't be the scale on which quality is measured because in the realm of video games, you rate a game based on the experience you had playing it. But at the point of purchase, you haven't experienced the game yet.

Everything else is obfuscation and carrying water for Blizzard. Some liked it and some didn't? 2000 years of experience and a billion dollars. There is no bias needed to say idgaf what the product is, I expect to see better reviews than 'some like it some don't'.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

Melee: Oh boy, did we all think melee can't be worse than in PoE? Well being in melee range in D4 is new level of bad. First thing that you notice is you're being hit every time when in melee range. Monster made a swing, you're getting hit almost without exception. You're getting hit a lot and it drives you nuts because your actions are so little worth. Have I mentioned cooldowns? Well you can't move like in PoE because of that. If you used your movement skill or "dodge" you're fucked pretty much. There's no defense layer as Evasion, you're getting hit non stop like a motherfucker. Not to mention that some bosses are very much anti melee designed.
Melee in PoE is million times better handled than in D4.

I have no idea what game you played. My main in D IV is a Barb and there is zero competition between which game has better melee. I seriously don't believe you played D4's melee classes at all if you say PoE is better. That's like trying to say Donald Trump is very polite and talks well of his past employees.

I think PoE is a better game, by miles, but when it comes to mele, it's the reverse. There is a reason why only 10% of the community in PoE plays melee and not because PoE's melee is so good or that people don't like it. Nearly half of D4 is playing some sort of melee build.

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innervation wrote:

Video game sales are a measurement of the amount of people convinced they will like something not how good it actually is. In fact, sales can't be the scale on which quality is measured because in the realm of video games, you rate a game based on the experience you had playing it. But at the point of purchase, you haven't experienced the game yet.

Everything else is obfuscation and carrying water for Blizzard. Some liked it and some didn't? 2000 years of experience and a billion dollars. There is no bias needed to say idgaf what the product is, I expect to see better reviews than 'some like it some don't'.

I am not carrying water for blizzard or whatever it is you think I was doing. You really think I am forced to say d3 is good? Really? Get out of here with that nonsense. I am merely saying that the hate some members of the forum have towards d3/d4 doesn't really make sense. And that their characterizations of diablo 3 and 4 doesn't reflect the reality that blizzard games are popular with more people, they were commercial successes that redefined the genre. Who can say if that is good or not.

I am sorry you didn't have a good time with diablo, I am not disputing that. I disagree with your conclusions based on your subjective experience.

I think the diablo games are good because I had fun playing them. They did several novel and innovative things I thought worked well. I haven't played 4, I might not. Hopefully people have fun playing games. Who cares which is better or not, I sure don't.

I do care if someone goes off hollering at the Anubis with some made up argument and tries to ruins other peoples good times.

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roundishcap wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Video game sales are a measurement of the amount of people convinced they will like something not how good it actually is. In fact, sales can't be the scale on which quality is measured because in the realm of video games, you rate a game based on the experience you had playing it. But at the point of purchase, you haven't experienced the game yet.

Everything else is obfuscation and carrying water for Blizzard. Some liked it and some didn't? 2000 years of experience and a billion dollars. There is no bias needed to say idgaf what the product is, I expect to see better reviews than 'some like it some don't'.

I am not carrying water for blizzard or whatever it is you think I was doing. You really think I am forced to say d3 is good? Really? Get out of here with that nonsense. I am merely saying that the hate some members of the forum have towards d3/d4 doesn't really make sense. And that their characterizations of diablo 3 and 4 doesn't reflect the reality that blizzard games are popular with more people, they were commercial successes that redefined the genre. Who can say if that is good or not.

I am sorry you didn't have a good time with diablo, I am not disputing that. I disagree with your conclusions based on your subjective experience.

I think the diablo games are good because I had fun playing them. They did several novel and innovative things I thought worked well. I haven't played 4, I might not. Hopefully people have fun playing games. Who cares which is better or not, I sure don't.

I do care if someone goes off hollering at the Anubis with some made up argument and tries to ruins other peoples good times.

All you need to look at was his last sentence of what you quoted. "I expect to see better reviews than 'some like it some don't". That right there tells you his knowledge was based on reviews. I think we have some clear places Blizzard crushed it if you want to go off comparisons. Blizzard's story is far better, their combat is far better, the graphics, and you don't have to be a god gamer to get a build working.

PoE has it's places that it Crushes it too. Ethics, GGG is leaps and bounds better as an Ethical company, Chris Wilson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Fergusson, PoE does not make you spend 7ish hours to hit lvl 50 (and that was a racer), build possibilities, flow of the game, Caster builds are much better for the most part, PoE has a robust endgame beyond the campaign, PoE has so much more to offer I'd be here for a while typing it all. My goodness if I even when into the Inventory system and UI options like filters...

For comparison basically D4 is an app while PoE is an OS

And that is why I will be back to PoE. D4 literally has nothing beyond lvl 50 mechanics for end game. You get Helltide which is a pathetic crap version of scourge, and Nightmare dungeons which are Soooooo very boring because it does not change. Everything in D4 is designed to waste your time. My goodness could you imagine that malignant mechanic in PoE??? Every step is made to make you wait, every public quest has 10-30 seconds of repeated for the 1000 time dialog. The game is made to waste your time.

PoE 2 I think will be everything D4 is without purposely wasting the players time and purposely making mechanics that were designed to annoy and frustrate the player instead of challenging the player.

In threads like this, it's always fun to check out the user scores of D3, D4 and PoE on Metacritic. It's an interesting read, and an interesting "balance".

And no, I'm not saying user scores on Metacritic are the best metric. But it sure as hell is up there with sale numbers.