My recap of PoE vs D4 and why even still PoE is unmatched

"

鬼殺し wrote:

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

To set proper context, I haven't followed this thread for the last week or so.

PoE is probably my favorite game of all time. I have been playing D4 the past couple weeks though. I must say that the storyline for D4 is the best I've ever seen. Even the sub-quests generally contribute pretty good to the overall storyline. D4 is worth playing for that alone, IMHO.

I agree. Story was carefully made and I enjoyed it very much too.

So...story-wise, DIV is unmatched by PoE. This seems to run contrary to your topic title BUT only if we are judging the story as significant if not THE determining factor of the match.

Which is an interesting thought to me: can we compare two games of the same genre, with the same ancestor really, based on a factor that said genre usually doesn't really highlight? Is DIV the first ARPG with carefully made, well-executed story/narrative design (this then includes the many side quests that add to the story of the setting if not the campaign itself)? It is the first I have played to do so. Sacred 2 is a similar format but no one would accuse that of being well-executed. Diablo traditionally relies on lore as background -- a necessary constraint when your game is literally a hole under a small town leading to Hell -- and when it didn't it really fumbled the execution. PoE...well, I can tell you the story of its main campaign but it literally doesn't matter in light of the Atlas.

So maybe it's unfair to compare the two given well crafted story/narrative isn't a main goal of ARPGs -- but I think Diablo IV does an incredible job of arguing that maybe it should be.

Conversely that for which ARPGs are traditionally made and judged remains PoE's victorious territory. In that light, yep, unmatched.

So like I said, that is INTERESTING. That a new ARPG from the genre's oldest franchise demands to be judged on terms that usually aren't the domain of the genre, almost certainly at the expense of those more traditional elements.

Amusing to me that three big hits of the past month or so did the exact same thing in this regard. They redefined the genre their direct forebears created. Not saying all three landed with me but no denying XVI, VI and IV are all financial wins of the big kind.

It'll get there eventually but boy does your "two" have a lot to live up to, too. We can say, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but Squneeix, Capcom and Blizzard all implicitly admitted it was indeed broke. Will GGG? Eager to find out...or maybe PoE ain't broke, in which case what exactly is the purpose of 4.0 being designated as a sequel/new game?

One thing is for certain: given just how many people and how much work it took to execute DIV's narrative design ambition, PoE "2" won't be competing with it on that front. And it doesn't need to be much better than PoE "1" to be a better ARPG in trad terms. It just needs to be more accessible. So there is every chance that even once it's out, PoE "2" and DIV will have fundamentally different goals and thus fundamentally different notions of success.

But only one of them was renamed to compete with the other. Kinda seems a bit one-sided. Almost as though Blizzard knew what they'd made had no chance of matching any other ARPG because it was content to successfully do something no other ARPG could have: throw stupid amounts of time and money at making it seem as vivid and intricate a game world as possible. DiV took a risk on the one thing ARPG players typically dismiss as background. It seems it paid off: "this has great writing" is praise you can't just buy en masse. Reviewers and armchair critics have their integrity, after all. But damn was it a nice feeling to say it and mean it. About a fucking Blizzard game.

What will PoE 4.0 take a risk on, I wonder. It'll be a shame if it doesn't take any at all, but not entirely surprising. PoE is fine as is. Apparently.

"

tstryke wrote:

I'm not a super hardcore player like a lot of folks that post here but I figured I'd chime in from a more casual standpoint. I am in the 70's now in D4 and I am having a really hard time gathering the motivation to play. I have unlocked all the Reknown and the map, of course. I have started to gather my Ancestral gear but the oddly striking thought of "why" keeps coming up. There's no carrot to chase for me.

While Uber Lilith is the "end game", it doesn't appeal to me as much as the end game bosses here do (most of which I have yet to see). it's a very odd feeling as I have always loved the Diablo franchise but this installment has me just as "meh".

I love the atmosphere, the sound and all the other things, there's just something about the game that really kills my desire to play it. Maybe it's the similarities in the NMD's with the objectives.

In any case, I'll probably shelve it until Season 1. Maybe jump back into PoE and see if my characters are broke or what I have to do to fix them.

"

RandallPOE wrote:

"

tstryke wrote:

I'm not a super hardcore player like a lot of folks that post here but I figured I'd chime in from a more casual standpoint. I am in the 70's now in D4 and I am having a really hard time gathering the motivation to play. I have unlocked all the Reknown and the map, of course. I have started to gather my Ancestral gear but the oddly striking thought of "why" keeps coming up. There's no carrot to chase for me.

While Uber Lilith is the "end game", it doesn't appeal to me as much as the end game bosses here do (most of which I have yet to see). it's a very odd feeling as I have always loved the Diablo franchise but this installment has me just as "meh".

I love the atmosphere, the sound and all the other things, there's just something about the game that really kills my desire to play it. Maybe it's the similarities in the NMD's with the objectives.

In any case, I'll probably shelve it until Season 1. Maybe jump back into PoE and see if my characters are broke or what I have to do to fix them.

This is pretty much the number 1 complaint at the moment, once you hit mid 70s it's either reroll or be bored as there's no meaningful character progression after that point. The balance patch was also incredibly disappointing but a lot of the glaring class issues need a lot more time to fix, maybe several seasons in before they get properly addressed.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

this then includes the many side quests that add to the story of the setting if not the campaign itself

"

鬼殺し wrote:

PoE...well, I can tell you the story of its main campaign but it literally doesn't matter in light of the Atlas.

"

HoloKasT wrote:

In D4 I can never see my character ever getting that strong, my current character has almost perfect gear but will still get one shot by anything in Nightmare Dungeon 80+ if my CDs are down.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Disagree, but again opinions and experiences vary.

From lvl 70's-100 is well over 100 paragon points. The difference between 3 boards, to 5 with glyphs and min/max is far beyond "no meaningful progression". That's flat out bs to anyone that's actually played into the late levels. It absolutely matters, and the power delta from a 70 to a 100 is obvious.

I actually find myself playing with the boards and layouts, deciding on what to focus on. Lucky hit and the subsequent effects are a very interesting mechanic too. I'm having to make decisons, and look for affixes. It's deeper than I anticipated tbh.

Now I suppose you could say "whats the point, there is nothing to do", to which I'd say what was the real point to begin with? Build a character, make it powerful, finish your goals for the build, and then either re-roll, or wait for more content as the seasons roll out.

If that isn't enough to satisfy some, then D4 probably isnt for you. It's meant to be finished, not played forever. Refreshing actually (and I'm not done yet)