My recap of PoE vs D4 and why even still PoE is unmatched

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YahooFinance wrote:

Thesuffering wrote:


1. Then it should realistically take 5 mins per flask.



I can't say i ever actually stopped time while rolling flasks but the worst case i can remember was me wasting 800 alts before giving up. Assuming ~3 seconds per roll attempt (realistic when you include the augment) that would be 40 minutes WITHOUT a result. Not an hour i guess but bad enough.

You said you don't care about tiers. However I've rolled countless flasks and there is no way a time in which it takes 40 mins to get decent suffix/prefix regarding what you're looking for.

40 mins even for t1 of the BEST prefix/suffix on flasks is a stretch.

The other person was correct, you are talking about perfect items.

Honestly could you at least get a clue before before doubting others. Just use craft of exile to confirm it. I was trying to get flask charges on hit along with either elemental resists or reduced shock effect, not sure which one it was but the suffixes have the same weight anyway. Minimum rolls on both is already 300 alts average. Mediocre rolls is 730 average. Perfect rolls would be 4370 alts average, like I'd ever torture myself like that.

You do know how average works right? There is no insurance build in to assure you get what you want after a certain amount of currency spent. Bad enough luck and you can spend 20000 alts without ever getting the combination you want. Sure it's not likely but people have been spending 10k+ fusings without getting six links despite the average being 1200. It's how RNG works.

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Thesuffering wrote:

I mean it is why Mathil, Fast AF and Quin are very popular. Their builds are good and great but not excellent or perfect.

Why are you mixing Fast AF (fake, speed up videos....) in here ?

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YahooFinance wrote:

I can't say i ever actually stopped time while rolling flasks but the worst case i can remember was me wasting 800 alts before giving up. Assuming ~3 seconds per roll attempt (realistic when you include the augment) that would be 40 minutes WITHOUT a result.

However I've rolled countless flasks and there is no way a time in which it takes 40 mins to get decent suffix/prefix regarding what you're looking for.

40 mins even for t1 of the BEST prefix/suffix on flasks is a stretch.

The other person was correct, you are talking about perfect items.

No, he is not talking about perfect items.



This is 2x T2 and it takes 43.7 minutes on average to craft this, with bad RNG alot longer.

I mean with the gamble craft system we have some items may never ever spawn. Since guy could be trying for a Flask combo and it never appear even in 400000 attempts.

Like some people have never seen a divine altar, since people get 5 in a map.

It is stupid to balance like this.

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Destructodave wrote:

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Well, my view will always be that the best items should drop and not be crafted, but I think that ship has sailed long ago. I'll accept that, but I don't have to like it. The balance between crafting, drops and trade is always difficult, and you can't "fix" one without tweaking the others.

Best items have to be crafted. That is what gives the PoE currency it's value.

If it was case that the best items come from drops and not crafting, why would anyone sell it for worthless pile of currency you can't make use of.

I dont agree with this. Currency has value because people gave it value. Just like SoJ's in D2.

All the way back in Closed Beta people were using crafting mats as a form of trade currency, even when it was incredibly wasteful to ever use them for actual crafting. They have since added more and more deterministic ways to craft, and it has made it profitable to actually use them to craft, but that was never the reason crafting materials had value in the first place.

It simply came about as a form of trade currency in Closed Beta, like SoJ's in D2, and has stuck with the game for its entire lifespan. Even when Crafting was literally the equivalent of setting your wealth on fire. Chaos spamming a wand or a maul was so wasteful it was something you would do when you were quitting, taking a break, etc. It had no actual crafting value. The crafting ability of today's PoE is nothing like the crafting ability of beginning PoE, when these crafting mats used as trade currency began.

Id even argue its so ingrained into PoE at this point, they could disable crafting completely and people would still use crafting mats as trade currency.

Crafting mats have value as currency because people gave them value; even before they were actually useful to use to craft. It was a rare enough, universally acquirable resource that everyone could get and amass that it turned into the equivalent of money to use as trade; like SoJs did in D2.

And people give them value on account of their usefulness and rarity.
Even Chaos orb, you need them for the crafting bench also Map device mods, which again yield more crafting mats or access to uniques.
But uniques will never be above top rare items. It's in the fundament of the game (you can disregard it's rudimentary stages).

x

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LowBudget780 wrote:

Diablo 4 is really bad. Once you get past the amazing graphics and sound production it is has absolutely nothing going for it. On the upside, it really made me realize how amazing POE is even though I don't really play it anymore, I might even check out the next league.

Pretty much.
People mocked me when I said GGG is giant compared to Blizz or any other studio of arpg genre.

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Destructodave wrote:

My point is, crafting mats had trade value way, way before they had the actual use value they have today, and I dont agree that the best items have to be crafted for crafting mats to have value as Torsten said; it hasnt been true for the life of the game. Crafting mats already had trade value even when they were very ineffective for their intended use.

As you yourself said: Sojs had value because they were useful, because, again, only way to get +skills on ring. Sojs were introduced after runes and before 1.10, people didnt gave a damn about runes. Runes only became currency after they became actually useful, before 1.10, only zod had significant value
Soj value was stable because they never left the spot of only source of +skill level on ring, if another uniq was introduced to compete for that spot, i can garantee their value would crash

And that ancient poe era you mention was also an era where the game barely even had economy. Not only it was terrible to trade, it was also a time where trading was plain not rewarding or necessary, idk where you got that "widely accepted" from a game with such a microscophic player pool. Its also not true, crafting was still the easiest way to get speficic affixes. The floor of what was considered good was vastly different, thus, even completely blind chaos spam had a decent chance to return something usable

And the comparison with real money misses a critical point: Paper money have a garantee that its value will remain somewhat stable in the government. Society trusts implicitly that the govern will keep the coin stable and when the local autorities make a bad move, the stock market reacts not because the immediate effects of said move, but mainly because that garantee weakens. Ingame currency is more akin to criptocurrency: Its essencially one patch away from becoming worthless, thus, players use usefullness to create value(and why bitcoins are worth pretty much zilch on any serious business but have some value for people who signup on sites like megaupload, easyshare and darker corners of the web). Yeah, soj had many convenient points going for it, but the main thing is: Game was dominated by casters and people were not familiar with critical points of fcr frames, so almost every character could use a soj. Runes were always there since lod came out and before 1.10, nobody game a damn to them outside zod, after 1.10 suddenly runes because defacto currency because now they were actually usefull(and the game was no longer completely dominated by casters), zod on the other hand lost value because its usefullness was powercrept

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Kharadas wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

I mean it is why Mathil, Fast AF and Quin are very popular. Their builds are good and great but not excellent or perfect.

Why are you mixing Fast AF (fake, speed up videos....) in here ?

What do yo mean fake, speed up videos? The builds work but low survivability.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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MadamMimi wrote:

It all comes down to what POE2 will offer. I am really hyped rn. D4 is a 6/10 to me.

About the same from me 6/10 for D4

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roundishcap wrote:

Poe2 looks dead on arrival for me.

I think d4 is going to be and already is a commercial success.

They could iron out this stuff.

The diablo people really made d3/ros a fun time after a lot of error.

That being said, por people think it's shake because its systems actually work as expected, there are less stats to scale, and it didn't have 8 years of content expansive in it (last two years of poe haven't gone core).

GGG could learn a lot from looking at the good stuff they did, like the cosmetics and the nifty character editing, mobs that don't one shot you from of screen. Degen grind that doesn't instantly kill you, a sensible amount of monster density. An item system that works.

A lot of poe dev practices is just player hate.

Couldn't agree less about PoE2.

D4 is already commercial success but D3 was also. That doesn't mean anything about quality of those games.

Things I mentioned won't be ironed out, they are core parts of how D4 is designed and how they want things to work.
From what I experienced so far, game is made for console couch players from it's foundations.
It's different kind of game from PoE.

I'd agree GGG could learn stuff from it, like offscreen one shots. I'm not saying PoE is fine, it's not. There's a bunch of things here that are not good either. But pound for pound, PoE is just on a different level.
What GGG absolutely needs to do is to rework the game so that screen wiping of mobs isn't the way to play the game because otherwise you'll failing at it.

LOL POE has 10+ years of content... D4 has 15 days... I play both but its not fare to compare on to the other Look how many bad seasons POE has had. The huge nerf last season list goes on. I have not had a D4 dev lie to me but we have had devs in GGG hide and lie about stuff to our faces.