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Astasia wrote:
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Thesuffering wrote:
Very few people post on these forums, how many actually post on these forums 100? Less?
So you think less than 100 people created the like 600k+ threads and millions of posts on these forums? That would certainly be a trick wouldn't it.
Over what 600k over 10 years? It averages out to 164 posts per day. Over the last few days I probably made about 20 posts. Yeah I am just bored.
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Posted byThesuffering#0836on Apr 2, 2023, 4:08:34 AM
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Thesuffering wrote:
As for meaningful buffs for my build:
levelling:
intimidate nearby enemies when you have rage
10% more attack damage
40% physical pen
onslaught and adrenaline on stance change(for bosses)
End game:l
10% of leech instant
50% increased accuracy rating for nearby enemies
25% chance to get flask charge on critical strike
Are you sure you aren't forgetting to list the stuff you lost instead? For example, that 50 % increased accuracy against marked enemies is in place of 40 % increased effect of marks, which was a whole lot stronger for many builds...
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Thesuffering wrote:
Hand of Thought and Motion now scales off dexterity. The Hand of Thought and Motion Unique Claw is now found on the Imperial Claw base type (previously Blinder). It no longer Adds 1 to 50-60 Lightning Damage or Adds 1 to 5 Lightning Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 10 Intelligence. It also no longer has 20-25% increased Elemental Damage with Attack Skills or 10-15% increased Attack Speed. Instead, it now provides 8-12% increased Dexterity, 8-12% increased Intelligence, and Adds 1 to 10 Lightning Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 10 Dexterity. It also provides 5% increased Critical Strike Chance per 25 Intelligence, and has "Recover 1% of Life on Kill".
Is it better than a dex-stacking claw?
I don't know, tbh, but it doesn't even matter - dex-stacking is an ancient archetype, so whether it gets a compatible unique or not changes nothing. It will play the same as before.
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Thesuffering wrote:
And like that unique has been buffed many uniques have been buffed.
And are any of them build-definining/altering?
Because, for example, The Surrender is indeed buffed, but it's still worse than Aegis Aurora.
Or on the example of Tulfall - maybe it is better than Voidbattery, but in that case, one takes an old voidbattery build, removes batteries, adds tulfalls, and he still plays the same build. Nothing has really changed.
Not to mention the league mechanic, as a whole, relatively nerfs unique weapons/shields in comparison to rares, because it's infinitely easier to get a good item tree on a rare (can just meld in any of the same type vs unique needing a copy of the same unique).
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Posted byXyel#0284on Apr 2, 2023, 4:11:49 AM
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Vennto wrote:
Let me start by saying this: I am fully aware of the Online disinhibition effect and other online-related theorems that basically try to explain why people act online differently as they would face to face.
That being said, I was really surprised about those last few days after the crucible reveal and the patch notes, how negative it was perceived in this forum as well as on reddit. Here are the points I don't understand:
1. "nerf fest" - I really don't know if many people remember the old days, when whole archetypes were ripped to shreds within one patch but nerf fest? There were certain things that were nerfed, but I wouldn't call that a ner fest, lets adress a few:
- removal of powerful masteries
While that hurt here and there, I get why some of the masteries were considered too powerful, for example crit based on Spell Surpress. That's double dipping into the probably strongest defensive layer for 1 additional point. Those MRE-Masteries aren't even a real nerf, unless you took multiple - once you run a few auras the new mana note with 12% global ends up with a bit more effectiveness and even if not... Small cluster jewels and you have an easy workaround, it's not that big of a deal. Fire dot multi and poison was fine, both archetypes are VERY powerful and u gotta make room for new powercreep.
- Seismic dead. Okay, where is the problem, u asked for a meta change?!
- endless heist dead: well, good! Sorry to say but intentionally staying in a certain level range might work economically, but progressionwise this feels just wrong. I fully agree with that change, and I would have gone endless heisting myself!
- leveling nerfs: typical, people cry rivers about slower leveling when in reality 99.8% of those that cry about that change weren't even able to use the tools we had to speedrun in the first place. I can do a 3.75h Kitava A10, and with the changes I might be more like 4h or 4.15. As long as you need an hour oer act anyway there is SO MUCH more improvement that u can make that far outweigh those changes. In fact, I would even argue that those changes bring the absolute top end racers and the solid speedys closer together, as now those inhuman crazy dudes that utilized Onslaught absolutely perfect can't "outplay" me with it and I don't feel forced to play a gem witj very little combat effectiveness.
So... Where are, compared to leagues like 3.15, those big nerfs u are talking about?
2. Boring league mechanic
While it is perfectly reasonable that some people like other things than others, the immense outrage towards this league leaves me questioning.
First of all, GGG had to design a metric ton of possible notables for different weapon types and shields within 3 months, while also looking for a way to upgrade those trees. This league gives choices, powercreep, something to strive for as well as again a whole new mechanic to improve items. I honestly can't fathom how in every 3-4 months they come up with new ideas like that. When you compare it to other games, the amount of updated content is just insane. Also, judging a book by its cover like that is also pretty trashy. Can't u just at least play it before tearing it to shreds?
Honestly this is the very first time that going into forums and on reddit left me actually feeling more negative towards the game and actually dampening my hype after the reveal. So I would love to have your opinion on this and maybe give me a few pointers what people actually want from GGG to finally be happy for once? Cause I don't really see what they could do anymore.
this is standart for poe forums every time new league is near, forum gets filled with poe is dead, stupid and boring league (no1 played since we still got 1 weak to go till launch ) this new poe killer ( last epoch/lost ark/d2r/d4/new world) i mean so many ppl wanna poe to die so they can flex
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Posted byanti4z500#5740on Apr 2, 2023, 4:20:19 AM
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Xyel wrote:
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Thesuffering wrote:
As for meaningful buffs for my build:
levelling:
intimidate nearby enemies when you have rage
10% more attack damage
40% physical pen
onslaught and adrenaline on stance change(for bosses)
End game:l
10% of leech instant
50% increased accuracy rating for nearby enemies
25% chance to get flask charge on critical strike
Are you sure you aren't forgetting to list the stuff you lost instead? For example, that 50 % increased accuracy against marked enemies is in place of 40 % increased effect of marks, which was a whole lot stronger for many builds...
Your argument was that there werent any buffs. And I dont have the points for mark nodes. But there you get frenzy chance when you hit marked enemies which evens out imo.
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Thesuffering wrote:
Hand of Thought and Motion now scales off dexterity. The Hand of Thought and Motion Unique Claw is now found on the Imperial Claw base type (previously Blinder). It no longer Adds 1 to 50-60 Lightning Damage or Adds 1 to 5 Lightning Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 10 Intelligence. It also no longer has 20-25% increased Elemental Damage with Attack Skills or 10-15% increased Attack Speed. Instead, it now provides 8-12% increased Dexterity, 8-12% increased Intelligence, and Adds 1 to 10 Lightning Damage to Attacks with this Weapon per 10 Dexterity. It also provides 5% increased Critical Strike Chance per 25 Intelligence, and has "Recover 1% of Life on Kill".
Is it better than a dex-stacking claw?
I don't know, tbh, but it doesn't even matter - dex-stacking is an ancient archetype, so whether it gets a compatible unique or not changes nothing. It will play the same as before.
Its significantly better. Dex claw gives max 3 damage per 10 dex, this gives 5.5 damage per 10 dex.
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Thesuffering wrote:
And like that unique has been buffed many uniques have been buffed.
And are any of them build-definining/altering?
Because, for example, The Surrender is indeed buffed, but it's still worse than Aegis Aurora.
Or on the example of Tulfall - maybe it is better than Voidbattery, but in that case, one takes an old voidbattery build, removes batteries, adds tulfalls, and he still plays the same build. Nothing has really changed.
Not to mention the league mechanic, as a whole, relatively nerfs unique weapons/shields in comparison to rares, because it's infinitely easier to get a good item tree on a rare (can just meld in any of the same type vs unique needing a copy of the same unique).
The void battery thing works for all spell damage builds while tulfalls work for cold damage builds.
Almost all the breach and abyss uniques have been significantly buffed.
But yes it will be harder to upgrade uniques, but i think i wont be upgrading two into one unless there is a chance it can be better than one i have htat hasnt been melded. I will wait and see how things go before i attempt those.
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Posted byThesuffering#0836on Apr 2, 2023, 4:27:10 AM
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Thesuffering wrote:
Your argument was that there werent any buffs. And I dont have the points for mark nodes. But there you get frenzy chance when you hit marked enemies which evens out imo.
No, my overarching argument was that there was no meta shakeup, that many top builds from a year ago are still top builds today, with very few new entries at the top. You picked one sentence from 5 paragraphs, and are trying to disprove it - even if you succeed, it still changes nothing about the overall argument.
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Thesuffering wrote:
Its significantly better. Dex claw gives max 3 damage per 10 dex, this gives 5.5 damage per 10 dex.
Is it? Because the rare dex claw comes with huge base attack speed and crit rate, especially the atk speed being relevant due to using dex stacking grasping mail.
Also, the main dex-stacking build is hollow palm, so the prime comparison needs to be to that.
And finally, that damage is lightning, which is a lot worse dmg type than cold.
Last edited by Xyel#0284 on Apr 2, 2023, 5:01:34 AM
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Posted byXyel#0284on Apr 2, 2023, 5:00:17 AM
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Thesuffering wrote:
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Astasia wrote:
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Thesuffering wrote:
Very few people post on these forums, how many actually post on these forums 100? Less?
So you think less than 100 people created the like 600k+ threads and millions of posts on these forums? That would certainly be a trick wouldn't it.
Over what 600k over 10 years? It averages out to 164 posts per day. Over the last few days I probably made about 20 posts. Yeah I am just bored.
Threads. 164 threads per day per person for 10 years straight. Meanwhile I have been a member for 10 years and have probably fewer than 5 threads created in that time.
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Posted byAstasia#2760on Apr 2, 2023, 5:14:38 AM
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Astasia wrote:
Threads. 164 threads per day per person for 10 years straight. Meanwhile I have been a member for 10 years and have probably fewer than 5 threads created in that time.
Of fair enough.
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Posted byThesuffering#0836on Apr 2, 2023, 5:22:13 AM
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Vennto wrote:
1. "nerf fest" - I really don't know if many people remember the old days, when whole archetypes were ripped to shreds within one patch but nerf fest? There were certain things that were nerfed, but I wouldn't call that a ner fest, lets adress a few:
I mean Moltenshell alone has 60% usage according to POE Ninja, so that nerf alone takes 20-30% EHP off of 60% of the builds out there with zero compensation. Add to that the reservation efficiency nodes where the popular ones like determination and grace are around 10% usage as well as other powerful and important masteries and we are likely talking about ~70% of all the builds in the game getting nerfed, probably more. If that doesn't qualify for "nerf fest" then i don't know what does. Sure there probably aren't any builds that are completely annihilated so i guess we should be thankful for that now?
Also i am pretty sure the negativity isn't caused by this patch alone. You have to look at everything GGG has done since 3.14. Constant, sometimes massive, nerfs towards pretty much everything. Some builds got relieve or maybe even power increases because they can abuse one or two of the powerful new chase uniques like Nimis that have been introduced but everyone else has been getting gutted for 5 leagues now, can't really blame people if they are annoyed by that can you?
Plus the last 3 leagues that would have provided some general power increase for everyone, didn't even go core. So no new toys, no new content, just gone, we are stuck with the same game we had in 3.17. And we all know Crucible isn't going core either.
If you think people are negative now, wait for the next Archnemesis type of league that doesn't introduce temporary boosts to playerpower to act as a bandaid, then you'll see what toxicity REALLY means because then people will realize how much they've been losing all the time.
Personally, never mind any kind of hype, i only feel dread with every new season worrying how much we going to lose this time.
Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Apr 2, 2023, 5:33:27 AM
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Posted byBaharoth15#0429on Apr 2, 2023, 5:30:20 AM
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The community also have the most blindly following fanboys ready to do anythong for their addiction.
Also Op , when the game devs do Negative actions towards the community its natural to have the same response..
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Posted byIvanovv83#6618on Apr 2, 2023, 5:40:24 AM
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The community is extremely negative at times like this but GGG create this themselves, you can't have missed Vennto how over the last couple of years the communities response to anything has either a negative, or a sarcastic negative stance however I think GGG are borderline 100% responsible for that consistently negative perspective.
Why? Because they constantly mask nerfs as buffs so much it has become a meme, anytime a skill is reworked, passive rebalanced, ascendancy changed etc players immediately dig into the language used to find where the truth is because they won't just say it.
It really is summarised by every patch note being the equivalent of this
"The Unique Item drop chances for Catarina, Master of Undeath have been rebalanced."
Its gone beyond its own meme, every player whose been around knows what this means yet they continue to attempt to obfuscate information instead of just writing "the drop rate for devouring diadem has been substantially reduced" and they now do this constantly, its so constant that even direct buffs immediately have people questioning if its real because they expect it to be fake.
Personally I think that is toxic as fuck, and they did that it isn't the community that started off that jaded they've learned bad behaviour from being mistreated.
That block aside the community are responsible for plenty of bullshit themselves too, like being incapable of recognising when somethings busted and going to get nerfed despite it being historically consistent and obvious. Much of the negativity though comes from a constant mismatch of the expectations set vs the results delivered.
I'm pretty level headed about any changes they make so while I think there are plenty of pseudo-nerfs in there I also think there are some cool positives too with some nice ideas so its going to be interesting to play and see how builds can be optimised with the new stuff vs the old.
I am concerned about the league mechanic because it looks like a very heavy QoL required league to succeed and GGG are notoriously poor at QoL for mechanics initially. I'm already expecting major changes in the first week or two to change how trees are visible etc and to streamline a section of jank out of it. Honestly I think it would have been better to make it work on uniques out of the gate rather than tying to a reward.
my #1 driver though is new builds to try out and i've got a handful of those so my overall outlook is mildly positive tbh.
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Posted byDraegnarrr#2823on Apr 2, 2023, 6:09:45 AM
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