Do you think d4 will have any impact on the ,,vision,, ?

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jdp29 wrote:

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

I'd say when PoE 2 lands and we get it back to back with other arpg's on the market it will be clear what a arpg titan GGG is.

The more I see about D4 and LE these days the more I'm convinced in this.

With all it's flaws, PoE is just on another level from the rest.

GGG was never a titan. The titan is Blizzard, always has been, always will be. D3 has probably sold more copies than all other clones in the same time period. If PoE was a titan it would have hundreds of thousands of players each season, it doesn't. It would retain more players, it doesn't. PoE is a niche game in a fairly niche market, with only Diablo being a breakout star. No other clone has ever busted out like Diablo did.

Blizzard is toddler compared to GGG when it comes to arpg. Sound odd but it is like that.

People that did d1 and d2 are long gone from Blizz VS people that made PoE are still there with crew that worked on it for decade.

I said before that veteran players don't even see PoE for what it is as whole anymore. We are so used to it.
But when you dissect it bit by bit (sound, art, mechanics, systems, content, economy, crafting, how it plays, feels and so on), PoE is masterpiece!

It's something people worked on for so many years with passion.
Players that are here from the beggining. The community that exists.
Only games that have something like that behind them that come to my mind are Dota, WoW and maybe Counter Strike. That's it.

PoE is one of the best games ever made. It just is.

Just for comparison. New mtx in Last Epoch. (Not to belittle LE by any means)

PoE
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3307039
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3310580

Level of attention and work that's been put into this game is really something.
You need financial giant as Blizzard to be able even to compete with GGG, and even with all that money you can't jump true all the hoops.

I don't doubt D4 will have it's players, surely lot more than PoE. Still, it can't be on PoE level, regardless of player numbers.


PS
About copies being sold.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3057826/page/27#p24914614

I hope they move away from the Vision, based on D4 or other factors.

I think they have succeeded with some good core ideas in spite of the Vision, not because of it.


Good core ideas - the passive tree, the skill and support flexibility, the creation of archtypes not intended or foreseen by the devs, constantly adding content


The Vision - Intentionally make a lot of features clumsy to add 'weight or friction', a lot of balancing around streamers and 8+ hr a day players to create a competitive environment.

Initially no, but once they see the numbers plummet, absolutely. If D4 is any good, they are about to lose 90% of their casual base.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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jdp29 wrote:

"

TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

I'd say when PoE 2 lands and we get it back to back with other arpg's on the market it will be clear what a arpg titan GGG is.

The more I see about D4 and LE these days the more I'm convinced in this.

With all it's flaws, PoE is just on another level from the rest.

GGG was never a titan. The titan is Blizzard, always has been, always will be. D3 has probably sold more copies than all other clones in the same time period. If PoE was a titan it would have hundreds of thousands of players each season, it doesn't. It would retain more players, it doesn't. PoE is a niche game in a fairly niche market, with only Diablo being a breakout star. No other clone has ever busted out like Diablo did.

Blizzard is toddler compared to GGG when it comes to arpg. Sound odd but it is like that.

People that did d1 and d2 are long gone from Blizz VS people that made PoE are still there with crew that worked on it for decade.

I said before that veteran players don't even see PoE for what it is as whole anymore. We are so used to it.
But when you dissect it bit by bit (sound, art, mechanics, systems, content, economy, crafting, how it plays, feels and so on), PoE is masterpiece!

It's something people worked on for so many years with passion.
Players that are here from the beggining. The community that exists.
Only games that have something like that behind them that come to my mind are Dota, WoW and maybe Counter Strike. That's it.

PoE is one of the best games ever made. It just is.

Just for comparison. New mtx in Last Epoch. (Not to belittle LE by any means)

PoE
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3307039
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3310580

Level of attention and work that's been put into this game is really something.
You need financial giant as Blizzard to be able even to compete with GGG, and even with all that money you can't jump true all the hoops.

I don't doubt D4 will have it's players, surely lot more than PoE. Still, it can't be on PoE level, regardless of player numbers.


PS
About copies being sold.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3057826/page/27#p24914614

Diablo 3, as of August 2015, sold over 30 Million copies.

Can you objectively, with no emotions brought in, really consider GGG a Titan compared to that?

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jdp29 wrote:

Can you objectively, with no emotions brought in, really consider GGG a Titan compared to that?

The mental gymnastics PoE players can do to justify the design is a thing of wonder.

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jdp29 wrote:

Diablo 3, as of August 2015, sold over 30 Million copies.

Can you objectively, with no emotions brought in, really consider GGG a Titan compared to that?

It can be sold in 100 million copies for all I care, it's still hot garbage.
I've linked you comment but you obviously didn't draw the right conclusion from it.

And yeah, GGG is the titan of the genre. They've set the bar for everyone else.
Blizzard can't make product quality wise that can be on par with PoE. It not doable atm for the reasons I mentioned.
They will earn more money no doubt about it, but that's whole different thing.

edit:
Just to add something that came to my mind
Can you imagine how many created objects are the in PoE when there's even niche where people design hideouts?
What sheer amount of legwork has been put into this game?

Blizzard is very much aware of this and they don't miss opportunity to emphasize that this is the beginning of D4 and there will be seasons, expansions and what not.
On release they will not bring PoE level product, mark my words. It's still in beta ffs.

Both are titans, doesn't matter how biased fanboys opinion is. That's like saying Dota 2 is a titan and LoL isn't because they like Dota more. Stop being childish.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

PoE is one of the best games ever made. It just is.

I am so glad there is someone on the planet who feels that way about it and is brave enough to say it here, one of the most hostile arenas for PoE fans in existence.

...jokes aside, everyone needs to feel this way about something. As long as they never forget the difference between opinion and fact.

Here's a relevant fact: PoE will have had far more influence on DIV than DIV has on PoE 4.0. Two factors for this -- one, PoE has been out for the entirety of DIV's development and has ruled the ARPG scene for most of it, and two, DIV is explicitly not just an ARPG but also a shared world with large scale multiplayer events and progressive changes via player influence. GGG know their player base and know that to let DIV overtly influence their own renaissance would be disastrous.

...like I said, the mere topic title is so inherently preposterous to me I wouldn't have bothered but for being dragged in here.

That all said, IF DIV (due out in June) has influenced PoE 4.0 (due out...later?) or does influence it, I am very much going to enjoy the show. Then again, I always do.

As for those saying they won't quit PoE for DIV, well duh. Drug of choice and all that. But for those who have already quit and are open to options, DIV is a pretty big deal. Otoh I would much prefer to be in the latter stance than the former: few things characterise the insufferable nerd cliche like monomania.

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TorsteinTheFallen wrote:

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jdp29 wrote:

Diablo 3, as of August 2015, sold over 30 Million copies.

Can you objectively, with no emotions brought in, really consider GGG a Titan compared to that?

It can be sold in 100 million copies for all I care, it's still hot garbage.
I've linked you comment but you obviously didn't draw the right conclusion from it.

And yeah, GGG is the titan of the genre. They've set the bar for everyone else.
Blizzard can't make product quality wise that can be on par with PoE. It not doable atm for the reasons I mentioned.
They will earn more money no doubt about it, but that's whole different thing.

edit:
Just to add something that came to my mind
Can you imagine how many created objects are the in PoE when there's even niche where people design hideouts?
What sheer amount of legwork has been put into this game?

Blizzard is very much aware of this and they don't miss opportunity to emphasize that this is the beginning of D4 and there will be seasons, expansions and what not.
On release they will not bring PoE level product, mark my words. It's still in beta ffs.

Lol ? How old are you ?

Half of GGG's game designers and devs are old D2 devs...They didn't set any bar any were...They just took an old game design D2 and added replayability on top of it.

POE is the result of years and years of Blizzard failures...If Blizzard would have given a damn about how good their games are and not just money grabbing, GGG would have stopped pushing leagues 7 years ago...

Keep dreaming of GGG ever, and I say this with all the courtesy in the world, ever going to be at the high standards in both design and value as Blizzard.

1st - POE is just a copy of an old game with replayability and long term development.
2st - You just can see past the fact that every league in POE is a copy pasted mechanic from another league made a bit different with maybe 1-2 new legendries that will have an impact on the game that you will never see probably due to rarity.
3st - Even though more mechanics to force currency the fact that the players quality of life goes down hill makes the grind even longer and even more absurde.

and 4st and last in POE you farm to farm. You may think you have an end game, but after you reach a point were you kill ubers ( which can be achievable in like 3 days) you pretty much farm to farm. What's the point of actually making 15 mirrors a league, or mageblood in first 2 days like Grimro when all you will do is design farming strategies based on your previous farming strategies...At least Grimro get's some money out of it, but everyone else just farms to farm...because the end game is an illusion as long as you don't have something to replay for the sake of something, like sanctum for exemple.

I know you people have their head somewhere were the sun doesn't shine, but you need to wake up, smell the grass and just understand that even though you have new content every 3 month's, getting the same chocolate in a different box every 3 month's, might work for the fanboys, but not for players who have engaged with games their whole life.

Also all the players commenting on how good POE is are playing either in standard or barely got 14 achievements a league...Really strange...Since I made 23 challenges just by reaching the end game...Hence playing.

do people realize that d4 is going to be an mmo not an arpg and that its going to be heavily monetized and a huge cash grab?

its not even the same genre anymore

its just an mmo with a diablo skin