It's time for GGG to take back reigns of trade for the sake of the game

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

There's zero reason to use shady sites when official trade is available, unless you want to do shady shit.

Mic, Drop. There is no more past this. If you are on a shady site, you are there for shady reasons. [Removed by Support] I just came to say hi.. sure ya did bud, sure ya did. Can you please have a seat right over there.

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

If he has gold in a RMT site it means he supports RMT sites. Doesn't mean he did anything bad in THIS game and wouldn't otherwise require a ban in THIS game. It still doesn't excuse the fact he's willingly attempting to sell in a RMT site, when there's an official, readily available option that doesn't support RMT.

It amazes me how people stick up for this. My guess is these same people sticking up for it RMT also. GGG should start taking notice of the people trying to protect it.

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

I would just want them to care enough about it to not allow TFT and their unchecked RMT cartel.

You and me both. But how do you suggest they'll do it, without restricting (making the game worse) for the rest of us?

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Nulledout wrote:

It amazes me how people stick up for this. My guess is these same people sticking up for it RMT also. GGG should start taking notice of the people trying to protect it.

It amazes me how people stick up for this. Can you show me one thread, one post or even one hint where a single person "protects" RMT?

I swear there was another POE thread but it is gone it seems.

Many people might wonder why some of us are upset when people rmt large amounts. Why do we care?

If orbs are illegally sold for real money, these folks are less likely to consume orbs for crafting or spending them ingame for other items. Why would shady individuals use a mirror on HC, if they can sell it for USdollar in Softcore League/Standard? Tieing up ingame outside with real world currency, complicates a lot of things.

Certain groups get huge headstarts if they RMT at the beginning of a league, making the entire concept of a fair clean economy an illusion. It becomes a question of optimization, how much real money do I put into ingame currency to gain as much ingame currency as possible to resell for real money again.

Ingame orb conversion rates get influenced by real money trades.

You get locked out of certain items because their ingame value is influenced by external factors.

RMT pooling causes the absolute best items being created much faster on a server, making all the rest literally worthless.


Wraeclast is a ruthless environment and I am fine with cornering markets and stuff as long as everyone abides to the rules. If you start to cheat with real money, the game doesn't feel non-pay-to-win anymore. It devalues all the items and experience someone has with this game.

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Phrazz wrote:

You and me both. But how do you suggest they'll do it, without restricting (making the game worse) for the rest of us?

The past few days has shown the grip RMT has on the game. Unless GGG *insert name of this thread* , by seriously commiting to controlling RMT to such an extent that only Deep Weeb RMT works(or at least try to), no other work around will be enough. TFT existence for niche uses such as bulk sell, build sell and setup of 5ways is fine, but the moment they started openly banning people for acusing them of RMTng, they lost any merit they ever had. It's like if PoB or FilterBlade started banning people indiscriminately from using their services if they accused them of something illegal within the game.

Current trade is krangled, it's time they put the effort to unkrangle it.

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Reinhart wrote:

Certain groups get huge headstarts if they RMT at the beginning of a league, making the entire concept of a fair clean economy an illusion. It becomes a question of optimization, how much real money do I put into ingame currency to gain as much ingame currency as possible to resell for real money again.

Some of those recent proofs even point to TFT members doing exactly that.

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Reinhart wrote:

Certain groups get huge headstarts if they RMT at the beginning of a league, making the entire concept of a fair clean economy an illusion. It becomes a question of optimization, how much real money do I put into ingame currency to gain as much ingame currency as possible to resell for real money again.

This is exactly the problem. RMT jacks the economy for everyone else. You can buy 100 divine for 15.00 USD. It takes people 20-30 hours of constant farming to get that many divines and they need to have an initial investment before that even happens. So the person RMT'ing just made your 20-30 hours obsolete with one swipe of the credit card. Not only that, it drives the the price up for all the items that are popular. It means that instead of paying 2-5 hours of work worth of in game farming, you are now paying 10x that because the RMT'er can pay it with zero effort.

RMT absolutely destroys the economy. Anyone saying "It doesn't affect me" and plays in ANY trade league is dead wrong. RMT makes all your time in game farming worth less and it is compounding by the day at league launch. RMT is horrible for any game where you have free trade, and by GGG doing absolutely nothing, they are making the game worse for everyone who plays in those leagues.

This is why I was asking for an EZ mode with all account bound items. It solves the RMT issue for most people and gives them a way to get the items they want with out using a credit card or a stupid amount of time.

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

The past few days has shown the grip RMT has on the game. Unless GGG *insert name of this thred* , by seriously commiting to controlling RMT to such an extent that only Deep Weeb RMT works(or at least try to), no other work around will be enough. TFT existence for niche uses such as bulk sell, build sell and setup of 5ways is fine, but the moment they started banning people for acusing them of RMTng, they lost any merit they ever had. It's like if PoB or FilterBlade started banning people indiscriminately from using their services if they accused them of something illegal within the game.

Current trade is krangled, it's time they put the effort to unkrangle it.

We agree that RMT is a freakin' epidemic to any game. And we agree that it is a huge problem in PoE. I think my first (edit: It was my third) post in this thread was:

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Just freakin' hardware ban them all. MAC address, motherboard ID, everything. At least make them go through heaps of trouble if they want to play on another account.

I've since been told that this wouldn't work, and that there are easy workarounds for this. Another problem, is that RMT isn't illegal. GGG can't do anything about the RMT sites. Which leaves us with "policing their game" through logs. This costs money. LOTS of money, as there is probably millions of trades happening every day. And in a F2P game, where every RMTer probably already has 24 accounts he switches "money" in between every day.

We all know GGG do in fact ban people for RMT. But I'm pretty sure it's only the stupid "rich kids" buying themselves a Mageblood that are being caught. The organized "mafia" is probably too careful.

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The advantage for the person who made the item is XXXXX is online literally 24/7, the advantage for XXXXX is obviously that he gets free money when the item gets mirrored.

This says all you really need to know.

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Nulledout wrote:

This is why I was asking for an EZ mode with all account bound items. It solves the RMT issue for most people and gives them a way to get the items they want with out using a credit card or a stupid amount of time.

In my opinion, it would just be turning a blind eye to the issue. They have to fix RMT more broadly and see the effects of a RMT(mostly) free trade. Then, if a good percentage still want the EZ mode, i guess?

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Phrazz wrote:

Another problem, is that RMT isn't illegal. GGG can't do anything about the RMT sites. Which leaves us with "policing their game" through logs. This costs money. LOTS of money, as there is probably millions of trades happening every day. And in a F2P game, where every RMTer probably already has 24 accounts he switches "money" in between every day.

Ugh, i didn't want to agree with Nulledout, but making an EZ mode is starting to feel like a cheap, doable option. Less people grinding for them, trade has less items, it's more expensive for RMT to be profitable. It's the easiet and most effective way to combat it, that's what comes to mind for now. At least Ruthless has proven that. The opposite of complete scarcity is jsut as bad for RMTrs.

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Phrazz wrote:

Which leaves us with "policing their game" through logs. This costs money. LOTS of money, as there is probably millions of trades happening every day. And in a F2P game, where every RMTer probably already has 24 accounts he switches "money" in between every day.

That is their problem not ours. If they had any idea how to use outside tools like splunk or something of the like, finding these people would be VERY easy. Monitor all trades of 10 Divine Plus, you would catch 90% of the people doing it. Check to see if the item was ever listed for what it was bought for, if not, flag. Check to see if any trades happen with nothing given back. If they ip's never interacted before, flag.

It isn't like this is rocket science or even remotely hard. They just refuse to spend money on it. Hire me, I will get rid of 90%+ of the RMT problem.

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Z3RoNightMare wrote:

In my opinion, it would just be turning a blind eye to the issue. They have to fix RMT more broadly and see the effects of a RMT(mostly) free trade. Then, if a good percentage still want the EZ mode, i guess?

People who use RMT do it because the things they are buying are otherwise unobtainable in a reasonable amount of time to them. If EZ mode provides a way to obtain those items in a reasonable amount of time, they won't have to RMT. Some may still RMT in the harder mode, but I fair to bet, most people won't because they won't need to.

Weirdly enough rmt is often legal. Rmt is very broad. What ggg might worry a strict regulator getting angry at the "official" nonofficial discord with 400000ish people being based around rmt.

South Korea wouldn't care.

The Netherlands would care. They banned games for less. Overwatch 2 got banned there for gambling loot boxes. It isn't a stretch to assume they would ban poe because of tft eventually.

Anyway the people selling items can be liable for tax evasion, and some forms of conversion and fraud. In most jurisdictions in game items that are obtained by playing the game belong to the developer, not the player. The person selling items does not own them. This is why ggg can't be sued for deleting someone's stash or account.

Just food for thought. Most governments don't care because they got more important stuff to care about until a family member gets scammed.