It's time for GGG to take back reigns of trade for the sake of the game

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

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Valkaneer wrote:

Very few builds can beat the game on a 5 link with in the way you describe. How long ago did you do that and what build? Nearly any build that can do that has been nerfed or will be. Boneshatter, can do it on a 4 link, but it's the only build I know of that can without crazy crafting and good RNG. Always drives me crazy when some streamer says "I can do this on a zero or 2 link... OP skill plz nerf" and then you see their gear and it's mirrors worth.

Naturally, ubers were not included since they are technically not part of the "main story". That being said, i still had to use current passive tree and ascendancy, but that was about it. I used exalts for 3 multicraft on rings and weapon that i thought necessary, everything else was alt regal spam. Did took me about 4-5ex worth of alts to craft everything. I used the build i have the most knowledge about and practice with. I could've used some ground rares which would've lessened the ex cost, but i wanted to make everything to see how much it would actually cost with VisionTM method.

It did took a reasonable amount of time to put everything together, more than a few tries on U.Elder because he's a dick, and i admit it wasn't deathless, but it got the job done. It was in standard, so i don't remember which league was exactly, but it was before the trade fuckening.

Died lv86 at the Ziz Gauntlet with way worse gear to some shitty AN mod, but it happens.

https://pastebin.com/YHBtqMfK I had the PoB laying around.

I thought you were including the Uber bosses cuz that is what the streamer was doing. That said, there are still very few builds that can achieve that. You must be a very good player to accomplish that much on what ever build you're playing in todays game. Remember there was a massive nerf to nearly all builds with the Expedition patch. Things that were possible before may not be possible today. Also Harvest has been butchered so you can't craft the way you use to. So doing what you did a long time ago may not be today what it was back then.

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Nulledout wrote:

Bro, what else is an ARPG for? People play for the gear progression. Hence why it is called a looter. Do you really believe people play league for the game mechanics? They play league because of the fresh new experience of gearing up a character to be powerful, while the fresh economy is also a draw as it values your time more than Standard. All of the successful leagues were based around mechanics that provided an accelerated way to get better gear.

If you actually read my post, you would see me talk about gear progression as the main reason why people play. But designing a game around everyone getting the best items, isn't the kind of game I want - and I absolutely don't think it would be healthy for the game - and the kind of place they want to fill in the market.

And about my account? Why the hell would I lie about my items? Or my achievements? Sure, I can set it as open if it helps you in any way.

@Valkaneer
The build i showed was done the patch before div/ex exchange, so it's with Expedition nerf applied. As for ubers, they are technically outside of the story, and they have been stated to just be extra challenge, so i didn't include them.

And as i stated, that build was from base game, no clusters, no uniques, no league mechanics to craft, just VisionTM crafting to prove PoE in itself is doable in bare bones, and i gather that the streamer did use things that i limited myself further than him, so it's not a 1-1 comparison, i assume.

Everything else after the story is imposed challenge that has no need to be heavily gated behind RNG.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Nulledout wrote:

Bro, what else is an ARPG for? People play for the gear progression. Hence why it is called a looter. Do you really believe people play league for the game mechanics? They play league because of the fresh new experience of gearing up a character to be powerful, while the fresh economy is also a draw as it values your time more than Standard. All of the successful leagues were based around mechanics that provided an accelerated way to get better gear.

If you actually read my post, you would see me talk about gear progression as the main reason why people play. But designing a game around everyone getting the best items, isn't the kind of game I want - and I absolutely don't think it would be healthy for the game - and the kind of place they want to fill in the market.

And about my account? Why the hell would I lie about my items? Or my achievements? Sure, I can set it as open if it helps you in any way.

Designing a game around everyone chasing the BEST items is good for GGG but not for everyone. A lot of successful games doesn't utilize or employ that concept.

Basically you like such games but might not be for everyone else.

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awesome999 wrote:

Designing a game around everyone chasing the BEST items is good for GGG but not for everyone. A lot of successful games doesn't utilize or employ that concept.

Basically you like such games but might not be for everyone else.

"Chasing them" is one thing. A "super ez mode" where you "get all of them" is another.

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Phrazz wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

Designing a game around everyone chasing the BEST items is good for GGG but not for everyone. A lot of successful games doesn't utilize or employ that concept.

Basically you like such games but might not be for everyone else.

"Chasing them" is one thing. A "super ez mode" where you "get all of them" is another.

The "super ez mode" is where everybody get the same item, Power disparity is minimum and people rely their skills rather than their tools. You seems to have it backwards, a lot of games get harder when the player is doing badly and have nothing like BEST items to fall back on. BEST items are like crutches.

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Phrazz wrote:

And about my account? Why the hell would I lie about my items? Or my achievements? Sure, I can set it as open if it helps you in any way.

You my friend are not the average players. You have a few 100s and most of your league toons are 95+ before you quit. This is why you want the chase, and that is ok to want. I too play an exorbitant amount when I play, but I don't need the chase. With a game like this, I like to gear up a toon, and then move to the next one to gear up another. The problem is the gear wall is too steep to bother doing more than one per league. The only leagues where it wasn't a stupid grind, was the ones with Harvest in it. I was able to get near the best gear in those leagues, and it was a blast.

I am not asking to have chase items raining from the sky, what I want is to have chase items not be so rare and have gear progression not so RNG. There is no reason for a Mirror or HH or MB to never drop in 4k hours playing. One every 100 hours or so isn't game breaking and even if it is raining HH's, who cares, it doesn't negatively affect anyone.

100 hours is ALOT of time to even find one item. Considering the average gamer plays 3-8 hours per week, that is 12.5 to 33 weeks of gaming to even find one for the average player. So what if people are afraid of grass can get a lot of them, that is their reward for being grass averse. You can't balance around people who no life the game, you need to balance for the people who don't because there is a lot more of them.

I think the fair thing to do is make a mode where everything is account bound, and have that mode be super easy mode that rains loot. The opposite of Ruthless is exactly what this game needs. Ultra SSF or something of the like.

I also applaud you for opening your account, I didn't expect you actually would.

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awesome999 wrote:

The "super ez mode" is where everybody get the same item, Power disparity is minimum and people rely their skills rather than their tools. You seems to have it backwards, a lot of games get harder when the player is doing badly and have nothing like BEST items to fall back on. BEST items are like crutches.

The best items are a crutch when the game is badly balanced. Other games require you to get the best gear AND skill to beat the hardest bosses, which is opposed to what PoE does, in which the best gear demolishes the hardest bosses.

Ruthless is further proof of their lack on understanding of balancing. Instead of making the game harder by having monsters do double damage and have double the health, making good defenses and better damage a requirement, they just made loot scarcer. It would be a lot different if ruthless REQUIRED 10mill dps, along with 6k hp, 80% elemental resistances and capped chaos res, opposed to just getting one exalt raw drop the entire league.

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Nulledout wrote:

100 hours is ALOT of time to even find one item. Considering the average gamer plays 3-8 hours per week, that is 12.5 to 33 weeks of gaming to even find one for the average player. So what if people are afraid of grass can get a lot of them, that is their reward for being grass averse. You can't balance around people who no life the game, you need to balance for the people who don't because there is a lot more of them.

I think the fair thing to do is make a mode where everything is account bound, and have that mode be super easy mode that rains loot. The opposite of Ruthless is exactly what this game needs. Ultra SSF or something of the like.

I also applaud you for opening your account, I didn't expect you actually would.

I don't want to invalidate your opinion. I can see where you're coming from but you're asking for a 'Diablo 3 mode'. That is such a shallow gameplay experience that it has diminishing returns at a rapid pace.

PoE has nearly 1,500 unique items. The idea that '100 hours is enough time to have earned a HH or MB' is crazy. Every mob would have to explode unique items or get rid of the weighting.

I've never subscribed to the idea that just because a game has an attainable goal, that all players who want to achieve it can do so. Part of a new league and a fresh start is to do more or go further than you could in the previous league. PoE especially, has multiple vectors to achieve this via game knowledge; you build better characters and have a better understanding of the value of items on the market (if SC Trade is your jam).

Essence League was my first real commitment to this game and all these years later, this is the first time I bothered to get 40/40 challenges. It would be nice to do every league but it didn't upset me that I never had. The same can be said for killing every uber boss, reaching level 100 or obtaining the most valuable uniques. I didn't get it done this league but maybe next league I will. Every new league has a goal for me to set based on my shortcomings of prior leagues; and that doesn't even account for any new stuff that a new league brings. It's great.

PoE is a long, complicated, deep game--just as a foundational principle to the core identity of what this game is. It's not unreasonable for players to set their expectations accordingly. And if you can't or don't want to, that's fine too. There's half a dozen other games to go play right now (and if there are no other aRPGs you prefer to play; ask yourself why that is). This one serves this particular niche, however.

@muzein
Then the question just boils down to how much time is acceptable to get a t0 drop. 100h, sure, too low, but not having a natural HH or MB with over 5000h is just as bullshit.

The same amount of time required for someone to buy one through trade should be the required time to drop one naturally. Maybe 10 times as much, but not 100 times. The premise that PoE is hard is alredy a weak one, it's complex at best. Needing to extend that gameplay, when it alredy has thousands of possible builds and mechanics, with RNG, is another weak plot to keep players around. And as is, it just benefits and encourages RMTrs more than actual players.