It's time for GGG to take back reigns of trade for the sake of the game

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

@Snorkle_uk A big part of RMT is the perceived necessity of it. People don't want items to be easily accessible, and that only reinforces the need of trade. Gx3 balancing the game based on trade is a huge mistake that only strengthens RMT.

the problem i have with what ur saying is, it boils down to:

"the more desirable items are the more people will be incentivised to use rmt to get them."



and that is true, but this is an item looter hack n slash game. having the items feel extremely desirable is a fundamental requirement of making a good game in this genre. this game is here and so successful after 10 years because it has managed to maintain this item desire.

all the other arpgs, diablo 3, grim dawn, tl2, we could basically name them all. they all give you an easier time getting top tier items and accessing top tier content. so if thats what u want, why would u come to this game, the one game that has made its items feel very valuable, and want to make it like all the other games that didnt do this?




i feel like the reason people do this is because this game is super successful, and they like this game more, this is the one they want to play. but i dont think they get that the reason its so successful, the reason it has lasted this long and been able to add all these layers to the game through continued development is because people keep coming back and that is because at the core of this item hunt game the item hunt itself has remained extremely valid BECAUSE the items are still desirable.

i feel like the reason you want it so badly is you have a coveting item addiction, and that has been conditioned into you by this item system and the perceived sense of value it has attached to the items in the communities minds. you are asking to change the systems in a way that will fundamentally devalue the feel of the items, and i dont think you appreciate that will destroy this feeling of strong desire you have for them that is causing you to want these changes.

you want a different system, but i think the way you want them so badly and the wider success of this game is an inherent consequence of the current system.

@Snorkle_uk
My opinion is that the game is successful not because of the loot, but because of the gameplay and content. If any other game had anything close to PoEs complexity and freedom, i'd be there. As i said before, and will keep saying, i'd pay to never interact with trade in my life ever again, but SSF is trash because they balance the game over trade, so here we are.

Grim Dawn is a close second, but it doesn't have the content nor as much freedom to build. I still played it for over 1k hours.

Last Epoch is decent, but it locks builds behind classes, it's boring. And same problem, not that much content.

@DiabloImmoral
Fine, i won't waste my time trying to convince you of the obvious. You will never find 100% fool proof evidence because they are not retarded to leave any for the likes of you to stumble upon and finally decide they are guilty. It's up to Gx3 to find it and they are either guilty or incompetent, both which there is evidence of.

the game isnt balanced around trade, the game is actually more balanced for self found.

arpgs are item hunt games at their core, of course the item system is at the core of the games success. the content is only been able to be added because of the success of the core game that kept people coming back and funding that content.


why is ssf trash? you can find tons of items that make you charcter stronger. you just cant get the golden carrot chase items that the community so strongly desires. you dont realise it, but what you are asking is to turn those strongly desirable items into the sort of trash you can find in ssf that you dont care about.

if its not about the items, then why is your whole desire to play being shaped by the items? why are you saying you want to play ssf, but you cant, you call it trash, and your reasoning is your access to items.

its not about the items? thats not whats making the game successful? thats not whats making you keep playing? but then you admit the entire way you play is based around item availability, to the point of you wanting to play ssf but youre ending up playing a different mode you dont like purely because of your perceived ability to access items that are highly desirable in that mode, and they are that desirable precisely because you cant reliably get them in ssf.

A quick google search and it's most evident that people think it's balanced towards trade.

If gameplay is irrelevant then, why don't i just play poker? Much more profitable and enjoyable than POE if I'm just gambling with terrible odds. I'm a lot better at Poker too.

the devs have pretty much stated the game is balanced around self found. they have said the datas shows the vast majority of players play self found, and of the ones who trade the majority of them only make a couple of trades per league.

the amount of players who actively trade in any meaningful way in this game is a small minority within a minority, and the entire reason they dont want trade to be even easier is because they dont want to have to balance the game around trade because most players dont trade. they dont even want most players to trade, they want trade to be an option because it gives a sense of value to items. their entire goal is to make an item system where the items feel valuable, thats the core pillar of poe.

people cant accept that the point of some items in this game is that you cant get them. they say oh the game is balanced for streamers, ggg only cares about streamers and my evidence for this is that i watched a streamer playing in a 6 man magic find party chaining 100% deli mass juiced maps for 14 hours straight every day and they found a mirror and a mageblood, and then he farmed uber bosses 50 times in a row and 1 shot the bosses.

...and thats balanced is it? the devs sat down and said yeah, i wanna make a game and the intended balance is 1 shotting uber bosses who you can mass chain and finding mirrors and magebloods every day? its so stupid that people believe that is the intended balance state.



its not, you are not supposed to do that, the game isnt designed to do that, the intended balance is that you never find a mirror, that you cant fully equip a character that can crush t16 maps with the amount of currency you can farm running 16x t1 maps. that is not intended, if you trade you are able to access stupid amounts of power that the game is not balanced around. the game becomes a complete joke when you trade. the intended balance is that there is character progression over time and stuff out there thats like winning the lottery, it will probably never happen. thats intentional, buying gear that can destroy the entire endgame on day 2 of a league is not intended game balance.




the reason people try and claim it is? because they are grasping at delusions to justify an agenda usually centred around the devs feeding an addiction the game has fostered in them. bring back harvest etc, game balanced around streamers = immoral devs = give me my harvest item printer to feed my itemcrack habit. meanwhile anyone with even an ounce of sense and objectivity can see the these streamers are playing the least balanced version of poe outside of the mirror market mafias and that if you give people the itemcrack they want their tolerence will rapidly build and they will just be right back demanding even more, what you gave them stopped fulfilling their need because their need is generated by wanting something they dont have. once they have it, it stops creating the desire to get it.







i didnt say gameplay is irrelevant.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

i didnt say gameplay is irrelevant.

You have, along with everything else that i won't bother to read.

I wouldn't be surprised if current or former GGG employees were involved in some way at TFT. At this point, I consider TFT to be a GGG subsidiary/partner.

GGG take back the reins? TFT does way too much of the heavy lifting.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if current or former GGG employees were involved in some way at TFT. At this point, I consider TFT to be a GGG subsidiary/partner.

GGG take back the reins? TFT does way too much of the heavy lifting.

TFT is too tiny to accomplish that, put the tinfoil back on the stick :P

Cant say i care for TFT but thats mostly because i don't want to interact with another third party community to play the game and that pretty much ends there.

Almost any large community will see RMT activity and that only goes up with the scale of community to the point even the best intentions will fall to the side before the sheer number of users at play.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that even if TFT is causing problems that those problems wont go away with TFT they will just go to the next community or communication medium.

The solution needs to acknowledge this^

TFTrash

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

My opinion is that the game is successful not because of the loot, but because of the gameplay and content. If any other game had anything close to PoEs complexity and freedom, i'd be there. As i said before, and will keep saying, i'd pay to never interact with trade in my life ever again, but SSF is trash because they balance the game over trade, so here we are.

Having trade, increases the longevity of the game, appeals to more people and actually brings a depth to build creation, strategies and goals.

The SSFHC ladders show us, league after league, that some players "beat the game" in a few days. Sure, some of them play an unhealthy amount, but if you distribute those hours over a week? A month? A league? It shows that the game is more than doable SSF.

GGG clearly want the game to be time consuming. They clearly want trade as a core part of the "main leagues". Advocating for them to change that, is like advocating for the movement patter of the queen in chess to change; it just not going to happen.

While I agree that the game is somewhat centered and balanced around the ability to trade, I think the requirement of trade is somewhat blown out of proportions, partly because of the 'elite' players, streamers and whatnot, telling/showing you how to play the game - creating an unrealistic picture of the game for others. It is also blown out of proportions by the expectations of "I'm supposed to have access to X" - while the reality is: You're not, and that should be totally OK. Who the hell farmed a complete set of Tal Rasha's Bindings in D2? Very few.

The game NEEDS to appeal to 'elite' players too. Those players need to have some goals/bosses/items/whatever that us mortal players don't really have access to outside of extreme luck. Personally, I think this is a VERY important part of the game as a whole.