solo players get nothing

your right TFT is a great service ggg should add a like on the noticeboard
but i do think we should all have allocated loot drops so group and boosting each other's maps becomes normal

"

Xzorn wrote:

Players used to group considerably more back in the day. Esp in HC.

This is in fact a reaction to GGG making poor decisions in their game design. In other words GGG created the problem in the first place by making players too fast, deal too much damage and entirely removing enemy engagement tactics from the game.

When I used to group with friends who no longer play. We'd divide jobs as we move through the game. As melee I would avoid GMP rares like the plague and let my ranged buddy take care of them. Then I would block off choke points letting range go ham without having to avoid enemies.

Grouping devolved into MF speed spam because that's what the game devolved into.
Any Solo player can meld the highest end-game content, move at comet speeds and the type of enemy you're fighting doesn't matter because it's already dead. GGG made the game like this.

i really appreciate you sharing your experience. i usually avoid partying from the get go so its pretty interesting to read on how party experience used to be.

and as for clearspeed meta. i m now embracing it.

after embracing it, i ve come to realize how much more easy the game becomes when you dont move around like molasses. the less time you spend killing stuff, the less chance of you dying.

as for MF. i've hated MF "forever". i really hate the fact that players used to do dominus culling runs and forgot all about it until the AN/drop issue that became a huge issue not too long ago.

"

exsea wrote:

i really appreciate you sharing your experience. i usually avoid partying from the get go so its pretty interesting to read on how party experience used to be.

and as for clearspeed meta. i m now embracing it.

after embracing it, i ve come to realize how much more easy the game becomes when you dont move around like molasses. the less time you spend killing stuff, the less chance of you dying.

as for MF. i've hated MF "forever". i really hate the fact that players used to do dominus culling runs and forgot all about it until the AN/drop issue that became a huge issue not too long ago.

It's hard to fully explain the differences. It didn't feel like we moved slowly back then because there was nothing else to compare to. Movement speed is subjective perception in games.

I can tell you that because by comparison we were slower that individual engagement mattered more and what esp helped was enemy density was 1/10th of what it is now. More than 10 enemies on the screen was a risky situation and the game very much punished you for overextending.

It was less about moving just to lower chances of being hit by random projectiles and more about purposefully moving when you see an enemy like a Roa kick their feet to charge. Strafe around a group of Cobras instead of charging head on because that would have gotten you killed.

If anything this league showed. It's that GGG still remembers these interactions.
Despite current flaws like damage output still eventually ruining them.

I avoid parties now but it's because they've devolved into speed runs. Not my thing. Back in the day everyone would just spam Ledge to level for fear of dying. My buddies and I would do everything thanks to the tactical interaction and picking up each others flaws.

party play is just so stressful in poe,i cant stand it not even for a few min

the loot itself isnt even that much worse in solo vs party,the problem is the map investment to get to the loot

i would even go as far and say,the solo player gots more loot from if used the same level of map investment
having to use just 4 sextants,4 scarabs and 1 map for 6 ppl makes it so much better
you get a lot more loot for each "chaos" spent

i dont really see a way to fix this ...

i only play solo

atlas tree is the key

There is one thing solo players get much more of - hassle-free, people-free playtime at their own convenience.

As for loot, yes it is incredible unfair to solo. A merc of some sort would help and with heist GGG has flirted with the idea. Of course, our fellow players will be outraged and screaming about bots and nerfs if ever it did come to pass.

I did not play early POE but I did play lots of Diablo 2 in 2005-2007 and clear runs were often done in a party - party play was promoted by giant boons to experience gain, rather than drops. Sure you'd get more drops but the difference in amount of loot wasn't that comically high like in modern POE.

8-player CS or Baal run was giving 450% increased experience so players teamed up with as many people as they could to grind levels faster.

"

Xzorn wrote:

It's hard to fully explain the differences. It didn't feel like we moved slowly back then because there was nothing else to compare to. Movement speed is subjective perception in games.

I can tell you that because by comparison we were slower that individual engagement mattered more and what esp helped was enemy density was 1/10th of what it is now. More than 10 enemies on the screen was a risky situation and the game very much punished you for overextending.

It was less about moving just to lower chances of being hit by random projectiles and more about purposefully moving when you see an enemy like a Roa kick their feet to charge. Strafe around a group of Cobras instead of charging head on because that would have gotten you killed.

If anything this league showed. It's that GGG still remembers these interactions.
Despite current flaws like damage output still eventually ruining them.

I avoid parties now but it's because they've devolved into speed runs. Not my thing. Back in the day everyone would just spam Ledge to level for fear of dying. My buddies and I would do everything thanks to the tactical interaction and picking up each others flaws.

i would argue movement speed wasnt too necessary back then, heck, if we look at the old vids of pre beta poe, things were much more impactful. attacks that were slow felt powerful. things were slower and more deliberate.

knockback felt important and impactful as it helped players manage their enemies. bleed was and still is strong in its original form where large hits felt impactful.

now? knockback feels weak as you're better off killing the enemy faster. whatever resources invested in knockback should have been invested in dps instead.

bleed? most players struggle to get huge hits. instead we now have crimson dance.

also if we look at all the old bosses up to dominus, the bosses didnt necessarily need you to have movespeed. dominus's 2 attacks were the lightning spam which can either be kited or tanked, and the touch of god.

the touch of god was good. it gave players a telegraphed attack and enough time to GTFO even with shit movespeed.

now? we've strayed so far away. maven without movespeed = cant complete memory game. exarch ball gauntlet phase = death.

everything is hyper sped up. and GGG EXPECTS players to have speed not a little but a huge lot.

what you mentioned about party and speed is one reason i dislike partying. despite using a zoom zoom speed build, in parties everything feels even more sped up. i feel so pressured to just leave "cheap" drops behind.

rampage was the first league mechanic that emphasized speed meta, but i didnt feel it back then.

IIRC legion was the first league that i ragequit POE. it was the league that solidified speed meta. my builds are weak and i refuse to play meta. but by doing so i cant clear shit. breaking shells at t16 took "forever".

i am much stronger now and can break most shells and at time all shells. but i cant help but feel that poe should go to a more slower pace.

which is why i really like sanctum. you need to play properly to succeed. even then to play properly in sanctum you need fast movespeed and attacks in order to kite properly.

"

Esubane wrote:

I did not play early POE but I did play lots of Diablo 2 in 2005-2007 and clear runs were often done in a party - party play was promoted by giant boons to experience gain, rather than drops. Sure you'd get more drops but the difference in amount of loot wasn't that comically high like in modern POE.

8-player CS or Baal run was giving 450% increased experience so players teamed up with as many people as they could to grind levels faster.

I wonder how many people know that your defenses are lowered when running in D2. Even back then, they understood the downsides of too much movement speed.

Of course this also devolved into teleport spam but that's another situation.

Early PoE was a lil slower than D2 but not because your character was slower. You moved about the same speed with no stamina bar. It was slower because of getting overwhelmed.

PoE was kinda like solo /players 8 in Diablo 2. Perfectly able but all movement and engagement with enemies had to be deliberate. Each enemy cluster was more of an obstacle and multiple groups was serious trouble. This is of course excluding lvl 80+ full charm inventory type characters since obviously those have been played beyond anything the game was designed for.

"

exsea wrote:

now? we've strayed so far away. maven without movespeed = cant complete memory game. exarch ball gauntlet phase = death.

everything is hyper sped up. and GGG EXPECTS players to have speed not a little but a huge lot.

what you mentioned about party and speed is one reason i dislike partying. despite using a zoom zoom speed build, in parties everything feels even more sped up. i feel so pressured to just leave "cheap" drops behind.

Yea, at this point GGG has back themselves into a corner. You can feel it from the aforementioned clear meter on every boss. It's not like they haven't tried to fix the issue. 3.15 Expedition was one in recent memory. The community revolted. People demand things but I don't think they understand the repercussions and now our end-game feels like an Eastern MMO end-game designed for robots.

I pray for the sake of this game they will make the drastic changes needed in PoE2 under the giese of a new skill system so the community doesn't flip out. I've watched to nerfs fly by and just destroy entire play styles. Fortify is a big one of recent. I can't melee with a Shadow/Witch anymore.

For a game that coverts build diversity I see less and less.
This obviously extends further to group build priority when fast is the only option.

maybe ggg should add an additional toggle option on the map device that limits the portals to 1 in exchange for lower cost of map buffing

this could mean stuff like

-lower costs of kirac optionos
-chance to not consume sextants
-chance to not consume scarabs
-map rarity bonus
-map quanitiy bonus
-monster pack size