What content is still worth doing lootwise?
" Classic "ceteris paribus" fallacy. Most of the loot falls into the mediocre to trash bracket and is loosing value quickly in any given league, because more and more people keep listing this stuff while simultaneously more and more players are progressing past the point where this stuff might be interesting to them. The more easy, convenient, efficient whatever phrase you prefer the trade system is going to be the sooner this point is reached. Simply because even more people are going to list stuff and players are going to progress even faster due to the high accessibility. Basic economy 101. If you were to introduce this, you are likely going to ruin trade for average and below players because the supply would outpace the demand almost instantly while the highend stuff remains to be rare and in high demand, which is going to protect the value of those items. This isnt the way to help those players and the convenience or whatever phrase you like isnt going to make up for their losses. They´d be better off learning to circumvent and mitigate the downsides you mentioned. |
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" But we are not in hypotheticals here as the trade site already exists. I have no idea what you are talking about as anyone can already filter out "crap" by using the search features. The quantity of items for sale is totally irrelevant if the search feature allows you to identify the quality you want. And yeah, It's already there, and functions this way. If you are making the case that the games progession and economy controls are solely based on the whisper/accept system, well then we wont come to agreement. That's lunacy imo. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" Shocker! Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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" Meh, non-agreement is par for the course on any forum/board. Edit: and for what it's worth, you disagree with plenty of post and opinions here. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Jan 31, 2023, 11:31:05 AM
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" Sort of my point; is there such a thing a good discussion between people agreeing? I would call that more of a conversation. Personally, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Reading/discovering peoples views and arguments in debates, is a usually an OK way to widen your horizon a little bit. Not sure if PoE forums is a good example of that, though. At the end of the day, we all want different things for the game, appreciate different things in the game and are willing to swallow different kinds of camels. No game is perfect, and as several people have said already: PoE is more "sandboxy" than all other ARPG's. And in sandbox games, it's all up to you to find your fun. " We all do. I have never told anyone that their take on anything is "shit", though. But we all draw the line somewhere. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile. Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Jan 31, 2023, 11:37:00 AM
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" Ohhh that's what this is about... That's a bit petty and sensitive for the internet imo, but if that's how you feel, so be it. Anyways point noted, and its not a hard thing to adjust on my end now that I know this bothered you. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln |
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" Im not talking about hypotheticals either. I was talking about fundamental laws of economics, such as "supply & demand" and "market visibility". Those laws do apply to all markets, real ones as well as virtual ones. Hence the phrase "ecomomics 101". The majority of the playerbase arent trading. They do not participate. And Im not talking about SSF players or anything like that. If I had to guess, Id say only about 20-30% of the playerbase are involved in trading, the rest isnt. Might be because they dont know trade exists, since there is no indicator ingame. Might be because they dont have premium tabs or because they think trade sucks or whatever else applies. The moment you put trade - AH or otherwise - into the game in a prominent spot, the amount of players participating in trade will increase significantly. The more convenient the new systems is, the more players will participate. That in itself isnt necessarily bad, however the vast majority of them will be average or below player resulting in them listing trash to mediocre items for the most part. When (not if) this happens, they will have to fight over visibility in the market because no one is going to scroll down multiple pages to buy a mediocre item. The only way to ensure visibility is by undercutting the market price, triggering a bidding war amongst those players and those items. This will singlehandedly deteriorate the prices of trash to mediocre in no time. Thats not hypothetical, thats whats going to happen. Point blank, period, end of sentence. Meaning you are either willing to list those items for alterations or alt shards even or you wont sell anything - regardless of how safe, convenient, efficient and whatnot the new system is. This will fuck everyone who cant list highend items and will make those who can richer. Because the supply of highend items isnt going to increase significantly but with more players participating in trade the demand for highend items is likely going to increase, making those more expensive. So average and below players will be able to conveniently make substantially less money while being unable to buy highend items enabling their builds. Guess who wont suffer. Players like me. All you are going to achieve is widening the gap between the rich and the poor. But at least its going to be safe and convenient, right? The current trade system is a good compromise between gain & pain. Thats what its supposed to be and thats whats protecting the prices of trash & mediocre items for at least a few weeks every single league. The fact that you cant even understand what Im talking about means only one thing: You dont qualify to suggest anything to do with trading or markets. You simply dont know what you are talking about. |
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" This is a ridiculous conversation for anyone that's plays the game or interacts with the trade system. There are tons of trash items and things priced absurdly right now that dont sell. The quantity of those items for sale is totally irrelevant, because you filter them, digitally, in real-time. If you only want to purchase a T1 life roll amethyst ring for example, doing so in an AH or the current trade website is exactly the same, and you can sort by price or other mods. The only difference being that in the current system, the first few listings might be fake, the next few might get no responses, and then next few might whisper back, "hold up, in 5-way. Then when they do show up you need to double check to avoid a scam. This cumbersome process might have been an economy barrier before the trade site(s) and PoB existed, but not anymore. That shipped sailed. Edit: for clarity it used to be very difficult to find an item you wanted. You had to watch chat spam or visit player shops on the forums (linked items) "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Jan 31, 2023, 12:54:36 PM
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If you have to resort to filters and stuff like that, you really dont understand the fundamental laws determining how a market functions.
What you call cumbersome is what prevents a good number of items from entering the market and compete with whats already there for visibility. Filters dont solve that issue. We are not talking about 3 or 4 items, its substantially more than that. If you remove barriers, there is no reason to not list absolutely everything there is. Especially if its automated. List it, someone buys it, collect money, done. At that point I will list stuff I cant be bothered to list right now because its cumbersome. And Im not the only one, far from it. I do willingly lose out on potential trades by not listing items because I cant be bothered to do the trade for a few chaos, resulting in at least several hundred chaos lost each and every league. Thats a choice Im making and Im fine with losing that money. If you remove that pain, you open the floodgates. Supply will go up significantly but demand wont. This always crushes the prices. Always, without exception and your beloved filters arent the solution to this issue. You might want to educate yourself on how supply & demand does work as well as other driving factors of any given market - filters or no filters wont change anything. On the bright side: I do agree, this is ridicolous |
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" That's not how this works. You are (maybe) rewarded for gambling. |
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