For the love of god can we have a in game auction system?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

No it doesn't, not even remotely. Current POEs loot is designed around trading. Making a mode that doesn't have trade just means you gimp yourself. This isn't even about asking for easy loot pinatas, it's just wanting to play without trade while not needing 100 times the time and effort for the same progress compared to trade.

Gimping yourself versus what, exactly?

It seems to me you are comparing the SSF progression with your Trade progression, and somehow think they should be equal. SSF is its own thing - and it IS what people asked for; SSF having its own ladder so people can compare, compete and relate.

Don't get me wrong here, I understand perfectly well that you (and I) are used to the current (speed of) progression in regular temp leagues. But when you are DIRECTLY stating that SSF does not "remotely" serve its purpose, you have to look up what that purpose is first. You will then find out that it does in fact serve its purpose perfectly well. It does not serve any purpose for YOU, maybe.

It's a matter of perspective i guess. If you take the intention GGG had when introducing it then yes, it serves it's purpose, being a mode for people who don't trade anyway accept/like that this is much more time intensive and want to be able to officially brag about it by having prove.

If we talk about providing an actually balanced alternativ for people who want to play POE without it's shitty trade system and without massively gimping their progression speed then it fails hard.

I wouldn't even mind if progression was a bit slower, 2 times, 3 times, 5 times even. But it's not something cute like that. I got my league slayer finished gear wise in about a week. The char isn't anything fancy, just basic gear needed to tackle non uber content. How long do you think it would take to farm Secret of Suffering and a Voidforge in SSF with those droprates we have hm? Especially Uber Elder who is hidden behind several RNG gates that can't be solved without trading (talking about Elder guardian maps and Uber Elder fragments here where RNG can be a huge pain in the ass). I am pretty sure i couldn't even do it within a league with my ~2 hours play time a day leaving aside getting lucky.
And the build isn't even the end of progression, it's more like a middle post at best. From there it gets exponentially harder even in trade, never mind SSF. Like just try to get two matching forbidden jewels for your build in SSF. Saying that's not even possible isn't even far off statistically speaking.

Actually playing this game SSF means to forfeit vast amounts of content and build choices and absurd amounts of time to the point where even streamers mostly stick to meta builds because they don't want to deal with it. It's not a balanced mode by any means, just a self imposed challenge with a badge.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

It's a matter of perspective i guess

It is.

And I think several of your arguments are fine, but some of them are more general 'build/class balance issues' than they are SSF issues.

Regarding uniques, I'm fine with the fact that you just can't say "I want it, I'm going to go and get it". It's fine that some of them are more or less unobtainable (self-found) - and can't be "factored in" when planning a build. What does this do? It actually gives you a nice feeling if it actually drops, and may give you a reason to reroll/respec around that unique. It was the same deal in Diablo 2; who the hell dropped a complete set of Tal Rasha's Wrappins?

So yes, I agree; it's a matter of perspective and mindset. If your mindset or perspective is that everything should be "realistically obtainable" self-found in PoE on "close to casual time investment", then I have to respectfully disagree. And advocating for this is kind of futile, because it will - of course - never happen.

I don't consider them class/balance issues, the core issue is the loot. To give a nice example. You are always advocating that weapon scaling is trash. But is it really? You can take a top tier rare, a voidforge, a Paradoxica and stuff like that and scale them like no tomorrow to the point where even Ubers die in seconds. So is weapon scaling really the problem here? Or isn't it the fact that 99% of the unique weapons in the game and 100% of the rares you'll find are garbage tier class and galaxies away from those weapons in terms of damage potential?
You can't make it past red maps with something like Hiltless or Kondo's pride. Those weapons are relics of the past serving no purpose in the present. If we had decent weapons dropable outside of 2% chances from the rarest endgame bosses then it's very likely you would have no reason to complain about melee in this game.
I don't mind chase items being in the game, Mageblood, Headhunter etc. I am fine with stuff like that being there to chase after. But the basic stuff needed to even finish the game shouldn't be borderline unoptainable without trade. Not if you care about having a balanced none trade game mode anyway. GGG obviously doesn't give a shit and it's not going to change but that doesn't make it any better.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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RandallPOE wrote:

It wasn't added as a loot piñata easy mode, it satisfies its intended purpose just fine.

No it doesn't, not even remotely. Current POEs loot is designed around trading. Making a mode that doesn't have trade just means you gimp yourself. This isn't even about asking for easy loot pinatas, it's just wanting to play without trade while not needing 100 times the time and effort for the same progress compared to trade.

It 100% does satisfy the intent that it was created for. At the time, players opted into a self-governed SSF and had to take the word of other players that they were doing the same, but there was no way to know for sure. As a result, GGG added SSF as a way to help that playerbase. It has always been a self-imposed handicap, even before the SSF mode was created.

The definition of SSF was also debated before the creation of the mode, including players that wanted group SSF, which was quite funny. The mode made a uniform definition for what it was/is.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I don't consider them class/balance issues, the core issue is the loot. To give a nice example. You are always advocating that weapon scaling is trash. But is it really? You can take a top tier rare, a voidforge, a Paradoxica and stuff like that and scale them like no tomorrow to the point where even Ubers die in seconds. So is weapon scaling really the problem here?

Yes, because Voidforge and Paradoxica do not really scale your weapon; they scale secondary sources of damage. Do you actually know the DPS needed on a rare sword to beat a Paradoxica when your gear is good with nice physical rolls? The same goes for dex/str stacking; the best benefits from going with those options are that your damage scaling mostly comes from secondary sources, and that they can be scaled into oblivion.

There are builds in the game that requires 'limited/reduced' amount of investment to really get going. RF comes to mind. Several trap builds also, and they have even been showcased to beat several ubers on a 1 divine budget. And all of this are balance issues, and not SSF versus Trade issues.

Don't get mw wrong here; I do agree that the quality of drops, rares especially, should be increased, especially in higher tier content. That goes for both leagues. But that all "non-OP" unique item should be 100% deterministic "go-and-get" items, I very much disagree with. I also disagree that SSF should have tailored rates compared to trade league. I think it's totally fine that the game is balanced with trade in mind, but gives you the option to opt out of trade if you wish.

And they (GGG) do give a shit. They just disagree with you that the game should be casually beatable in SSF, which is totally fine perspective. Not every game has to.

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Phrazz wrote:

Yes, because Voidforge and Paradoxica do not really scale your weapon; they scale secondary sources of damage. Do you actually know the DPS needed on a rare sword to beat a Paradoxica when your gear is good with nice physical rolls? The same goes for dex/str stacking; the best benefits from going with those options are that your damage scaling mostly comes from secondary sources, and that they can be scaled into oblivion.

Doesn't really matter how much is needed for my argument does it? If we say Paradoxica is roughly equivalent to a 400pdps weapon and acknowledge the fact that any build aimed at doing endgame needs this much to be somewhat competitive, then why not make it possible for other uniques/rares to compete? It wouldn't increase the overall powerlevel, you can already have it now with Paradoxica for a cheap penny. The only difference would be that you are no longer forced to pick from a tiny little group of weapons. Be it endgame or early game, the main reason people think melee or rather attack based builds suck is because their damage foundation is horrible with 99% of all the weapon choices available. If you use the 1% that are up to speed there are no issues. Just imagine having a realistic chance of dropping good weapons during the campaign? Suddenly you could actually compete with spells without breaking an arm and a leg.

And again, i am not talking about 100% deterministic crafting or go and get top tier items. On a scale for drop and crafting quality i am talking about a 5 or 6 on a 1-10 scale. POE currently has a 1 or 2 at best. Stop acting like i am pushing for a 10 which would be the other extreme, i don't. There is a large area between god tier stuff for everyone and the current "limited to trash tier only unless you trade" that we have in POE.

I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is "No."

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Jadawin87 wrote:

I don't know what you try to buy or sell but at some point just stop doing trades for less than 10 chaos. Most people just ignore these trade whispers.

Just ignore the lowest prices in the list. These people do not sell add them to "ignore player" instead.

Not my typical experience. I buy things for 1-3c all the time. You just have to stop thinking the top low listed price is going to ever answer you.

Scroll down a page and look at when the item was listed. A little knowledge of the system can help you have a better trading experience.

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Nubatron wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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RandallPOE wrote:

It wasn't added as a loot piñata easy mode, it satisfies its intended purpose just fine.

No it doesn't, not even remotely. Current POEs loot is designed around trading. Making a mode that doesn't have trade just means you gimp yourself. This isn't even about asking for easy loot pinatas, it's just wanting to play without trade while not needing 100 times the time and effort for the same progress compared to trade.

It 100% does satisfy the intent that it was created for. At the time, players opted into a self-governed SSF and had to take the word of other players that they were doing the same, but there was no way to know for sure. As a result, GGG added SSF as a way to help that playerbase. It has always been a self-imposed handicap, even before the SSF mode was created.

The definition of SSF was also debated before the creation of the mode, including players that wanted group SSF, which was quite funny. The mode made a uniform definition for what it was/is.

First of all I think describing it as "100% satisfying the intention" is super disengenous. This isnt what the players wanted, but it was all GGG would allow them to have. That's a very large distinction. Players did want the looting to be based off a solo experience, not trade, and GGG refused. You have to remember how long GGG fought to keep SSF from existence to begin with.

Secondly, GGG allows multiple people in a SSF league now. Of course you have to pay money for a private league, but its doable. It's a cynical move mostly gear towards their content creators, but hey, whatever drives that revenue.

Point is that SSF is still balanced around trade and multiplayer for nothing short of fear on GGG's end. That's all. Fear people will enjoy it more than their core experience, which in itself is laughably tragic.