For the love of god can we have a in game auction system?
" 6 (six) years past from the time the manifesto was published. Six years... and no single word about trading since. Ok, lets pretend that game haven't changed for these years at all. Absolutely nothing happened that affects trading. Am I the only one who feels that at some points we dramatically lack of feedback? Curiosity is followed by ambition. Ambition is followed by madness.
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" Feedback? They have communicated their stance and point of view. They disagree with you, which you should be used to as an adult. Should they keep reminding you that they still disagree with you every year or so? That said, the manifesto itself is of course old and outdated. The ideas and philosophies behind the manifesto still, obviously, hold true today. Sure, the game has changed, but not that much, at least when it comes to gear. Currency, fragments and stuff like that, on the other hand, probably need some kind of update. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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" Quite the contrary. Botters basically have their auction house. They don't need to sit in front of their computers to sell stuff. An auction house would level the playing field more. " They were wrong 6 years ago and are still wrong today. GGG makes mistakes. They make balance mistakes and they mess up parts of the game frequently, resulting in player losses. Don't tell me they do this on purpose. If it wasn't for the community and GGG thankfully partially listening to it, they would probably have ruined the game already. Many of the qol changes were inspired by the community. Think the community would have gone "sure, lootgoblin sounds like a great idea GGG, implement it"? Just putting out "arguments" against an AH and never having tested it doesn't make GGG right. Auction houses are an ancient old idea. They work, period. If you can't make it work, the problem is you and not the idea. It's just their opinion that it would suck which is challenged by many, probably the majority. Whatever the case, even if the majority was against an AH, the vast majority definitely wants BETTER trade while GGG is kinda saying trade must suck or else players quit too soon. Why limit this to trade then? Just make the game suck more as a whole! Maybe let your equipped gear be randomly destroyed. That will make people play longer because they have to get new gear. Combined with garbage trade that will have a nice symbiosis! Let's just ignore the frustration it causes. |
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" Sure, it's old, but certainly not dated. The underlying points still hold true today and it is particularly relevant to the suggested changes in this thread. They could certainly do more to improve trade without undermining their trade manifesto philosophy, but let's not pretend it's been completely barren since the manifesto. The most recent one that comes to mind is the highlighted item in your stash for trades with people in your group. I don't actually recall when the public stash tabs came out. But that was a big deal for sure. I think that was before the manifesto though. There are more but they are relatively small things and will likely be taken as insult to injury for the people that want something that will never come. Thanks for all the fish!
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" Again, they don't hold true. If an auction house is bad then it's the mistake of the developer and not the general idea of an auction house. Never have I seen a single player complain about the AH in WoW. Sure, there certainly must have been some given the amount of players, but personally I've never encountered one in many years. Fun fact, it was the same company who created the d3 AH... Yet, GGG takes only the d3 "failure" as an example even though the WoW AH came much earlier and was a success. |
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" What was wrong with D3 auction? Why was it failure? Could someone explain it? Curiosity is followed by ambition. Ambition is followed by madness.
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" In the developer's opinion, people spent too much time on the auction house and too little in the game. It's weird to me as the d3 devs actually made money by the fees from the real money AH auctions but not by people playing or playing more. You could argue they cared more about a good game than profit but then again there was Diablo "Immoral" as people called it, for good reason. So both AH & RMAH got removed at the same time from d3. They removed something where they got a small & reasonable cut from, hurt their own bottom line as a company only to then bring forth a game where real money made a way, way bigger difference between player power than it was even possible in d3 or any other Diablo games no matter how rich irl you would have been. Anyways they said it was against the core idea of finding items, literally the same argument GGG uses. Diablo however has roughly 50-100x better gear drops than POE mind you. Magic, rare, unique & set items can boost you and you actually identify stuff with a little pre-excitement. Unlike POE, Diablo is a game that is very well suited for SSF, meaning you can get to lategame easily without having to trade. The thing is (I think) in the case of d3 people lost almost the entire ability to trade somewhat comfortably. I know this from fact in the case of d2r, so I imagine it's the same for d3. In d2r you would cry from relieve if you had current POE trade over there. I would bet that most would even take the old AH/RMAH back over the gigantic nerf to trade. Trade is painful there. Some players just aren't interested in using traded/bought gear and I get that. POE offers SSF for them and that's cool. But that's the great difference between the games and why you can't even compare Diablo with POE (Diablo being well suited for SSF). The vast majority of POE however prefers being able to trade, hence they don't play SSF. Given that people at large prefer being able to trade, I'd say it's questionable how little attention GGG pays concerning that field and making trade more enjoyable. Last edited by Noooova#6275 on Jan 29, 2023, 10:14:34 AM
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" Just because you don't like the underlying points doesn't mean they're any less true to their philosophy. Nothing has changed in the game since the manifesto to make them need to revisit. Everything in that thing for the most part is as relevant today as it was in 2017. Disagreeing with those points doesn't take away from that truth. I'll say it one more time for the people in the back. Just because you don't agree with the manifesto doesn't mean that it is wrong. More importantly, because it is a subjective discussion, there is no wrong or right. There is just outcomes that the developer wants to achieve. They stated their target objectives and things they want to avoid in the manifesto. Nothing has changed in their assumptions of those outcomes and what they believe leads to those outcomes. And with that, I'll exit stage right because these threads are barely worth the time now... or even then. They just swirl in the same way. Good luck trying to find this horse to kick. Thanks for all the fish! Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Jan 29, 2023, 10:27:34 AM
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" Of course they "work". No one has ever argued against that. When we consider trade - and trade alone, an AH will work. It's the repercussions of an AH, and its effect on the rest of the game, the in-game progression, item value, economy, what it would do to things that are meant to be hard to come by, things you are meant to "want" and not "have whenever you want to have them". The argument of many people here, is just to ignore all of these argument as a none-issue. The same people have serious troubles naming ONE game with an ARPG itemization that has/had a successful AH. That alone more or less proves that trading - and the balance between the in-game progression and trading - is hard - and obviously not as simple as "I want to have easier access to stuff I want, and I want people to have easier access to things I want to sell". You mention WoW, which is a completely different game, with a completely different economy - and a completely different itemization. Now, bring forth an ARPG as an example. Now, is trading in PoE perfect? Absolutely not. Far from. But personally, I take what we have now over a full-fletched AH any day of the week. And "tested it"? What happened when they "tested" Harvest? People that want an AH (and bots) will think it's the most perfect thing ever. The effects of an AH won't come right away; they will come when the AH has been the center of balance for a few months, and every addition and balance decision made, are being made with the AH in mind - with the AH in the center. There are probably 2394847 solutions to the trade situation in PoE. AH isn't one of them, at least not for gear. I've debated this for years, so I'm probably done. The horse is dead and buried. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile. Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Jan 29, 2023, 10:48:36 AM
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" Unfortunately, this horse will never rest in peace. They'll dig it up to kick some more as we work through the General Discussion cycle. I guess we're at the mid-point of the league, so the "Game is Dead" or "Hello Kitty is the POE Killer" threads should be popping up soon. I guess we have that to look forward to. Thanks for all the fish!
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