There are no builds in PoE. Everything is just exploiting, abusing, and gimmicks

if u rly wanna make it work, you can.
last league before the buff i cleared simulacrums with soulrend.
u know why nobody plays soulrend? its not one of this 5 skills but if you like a skill you can pase through every content with every skill and make it work.
it wont be as strong as other skills at the same high investment but it does not matter if you oneshot shit or oneshot shit. at the high investment point there is no difference anyway. lvl 29 soulrend or lvl 29 fireball? who cares, it makes oom and screen is dead XD

"

pandafutter wrote:

if u rly wanna make it work, you can.
last league before the buff i cleared simulacrums with soulrend.
u know why nobody plays soulrend? its not one of this 5 skills but if you like a skill you can pase through every content with every skill and make it work.
it wont be as strong as other skills at the same high investment but it does not matter if you oneshot shit or oneshot shit. at the high investment point there is no difference anyway. lvl 29 soulrend or lvl 29 fireball? who cares, it makes oom and screen is dead XD

Actually...
If you peek at ninja, sourend is sitting at a 0.9% usage
Its not top tier, but its very much in the top 15% most used

Maybe your argument of "see, this off meta is usable, everything is" would have more impact if you used something like... say... storm call?

"

feike wrote:

"

pandafutter wrote:

if u rly wanna make it work, you can.
last league before the buff i cleared simulacrums with soulrend.
u know why nobody plays soulrend? its not one of this 5 skills but if you like a skill you can pase through every content with every skill and make it work.
it wont be as strong as other skills at the same high investment but it does not matter if you oneshot shit or oneshot shit. at the high investment point there is no difference anyway. lvl 29 soulrend or lvl 29 fireball? who cares, it makes oom and screen is dead XD

Actually...
If you peek at ninja, sourend is sitting at a 0.9% usage
Its not top tier, but its very much in the top 15% most used

Maybe your argument of "see, this off meta is usable, everything is" would have more impact if you used something like... say... storm call?

yes, after the 30% dmg buff it got this league, people play the skill obvsly more often.
check it for the last leagues, 0.1-0.2%
you should start reading patchnotes and make logical conclusions.

*peeks at data from kalandra top 13797*
0.6%

Lower but still in the top 20%, 0.7% if not 5-linked, lower but still in upper half

*scratches head about where that 0.1-2% came from*

"

feike wrote:

*peeks at data from kalandra top 13797*
0.6%

Lower but still in the top 20%, 0.7% if not 5-linked, lower but still in upper half

*scratches head about where that 0.1-2% came from*

whatever, does it matter?
i mean, what does this number even say?
it says: popularity. nothing else, just popularity.
what makes things popular?
in a game that 90% of its players does not even understand a huge role is the influence of streamers/guides.
why do u see the exact same builds that often? because they all had the same idea? you dont believe that by yourself and you know the truth is: random dude xyz goes to youtube and type "leaguestart 3.xx".
thats it.

lets take a look at league. you have popular champions in low elo that are complete trash and nobody would play them at dia+.
but: they are maybe easy to use? people dont understand the game? it works against bad players? there are so many reasons for things to be popular besides the factor "power". if popularity is your one and only argument you should fundamentally overthink it.

"

pandafutter wrote:

whatever, does it matter?
i mean, what does this number even say?
it says: popularity. nothing else, just popularity.
what makes things popular?
in a game that 90% of its players does not even understand a huge role is the influence of streamers/guides.
why do u see the exact same builds that often? because they all had the same idea? you dont believe that by yourself and you know the truth is: random dude xyz goes to youtube and type "leaguestart 3.xx".
thats it.

lets take a look at league. you have popular champions in low elo that are complete trash and nobody would play them at dia+.
but: they are maybe easy to use? people dont understand the game? it works against bad players? there are so many reasons for things to be popular besides the factor "power". if popularity is your one and only argument you should fundamentally overthink it.

Ehh...
Sorry to break it to you, but popularity was YOUR argument, not mine...

Your point is you managed to use an unpopular skill to clear a top area, and if you could make a skill under the radar work, theres no reason the others skills woudnt work too

Faulty logic aside, i just pointed out that the skill you used to make your point wasnt even one under the radar to begin with, so even ignoring faulty premise of packing every unpopular skill on the same bag, your point STILL fails because your example was not even one of those unpopular ones in the first place

[Removed By Support]

Soulrend is kind of a weird example because it was never a bad skill AFAIK (and if it was, it was likely so during very specific leagues). Probably the biggest thing that stopped it from taking off was when it came out, ED + Contagion was still meta and since then either poison builds or curse builds were preferred for Chaos DoT but the power gap between Soulrend and the other skills isn't that big.

Also popularity as a power metric can be misleading. I remember this forum went crazy when Cyclone had a 50% popularity rate and also there were a lot of Cyclone Cast on Crit builds, but that was also the league where Melee as a whole was at its best even if there were a lot of skills within it nobody was playing.

That's called a build, son.

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Orbaal wrote:

Instead of the payers being responsible to improve themselves and eventually achieve whatever it is they want to achieve

You don't make it sound like:

"Instead of the players being recognized for having put up with the game long enough to be able to have an opinion"

Just because "you can get there", it does not mean, that you should be allowed to make it sound like it's no big deal and every other input is put under the rug.

They should limit the input to 1 time only and to the thread only, so people like you don't hammer down everything, that ends up sounding reasonable.

The same way, that "build guides" remain unscathed, when there is a post reporting issues, because all that is seen is a high view- and reply-count.

You are all just hogging all the attention.

Most of the streamers look like they have some form of obsessive disorder. The only normal people barely make it into the game. Who do you think i would enjoy watching ? Btw..enjoy "watching" in times where i was too fed up to play it myself.

No achievement is great enough to validate an opinion, that gets otherwise invalidated. Somebody says something. You respond. Somebody says something. You respond. Or other people respond. What exactly are you promising us by having us "improve ourselves" ? Do you think i will praise the gameplay, that i find ? No. I will only get hammered down by people like you if i try to say, that i don't like it.

I often times heard over at Rhykker's how good "Grim Dawn" is. And i bought it on gog. And i played it a little bit, but i found it boring, so i stopped. I wasn't able to phrase why i disliked it. And any search only resulted in "giving the game more time", which is the equivalent of me wasting my time and still not being able to say how i dislike it, or the review praising the game. I literally had to search for "grim dawn boring" to start finding the right reviews, that resonated with how i felt while playing.

What is the bottom of the line ? The game keeps its reputation, people get lured to buy it, and that's all that happens. What i think doesn't matter.

It's the same over at some tech support. People follow x,y and z suggestions and are still stuck. What is the bottom line ? They waste their time and are not acknowledged in the way, that "something is wrong with the game".

You are just painting color over what people say. Burying corpses.

You can argue all you want. But you shift away attention, that you are not acknowledging other people's opinions. Why is it, that you can "disagree" and others cannot ? Imagine if we say "I disagree" to your "I disagree". And maybe even are lucky enough to write something, that makes us look smart. Wouldn't that paint the right picture of the actual situation ?

I don't have any interest in ascending to your sophisticated way of writing. I can dislike things as a baboon. The same goes for every other platform, that only shows good on surface, but hammers down any individual thought. As much as i appreciate your reasoning it is out of place, when you push away others with it. There is no "proving"-part, that we can do here. And getting lost in finding the right arguments to match your speech just strips us of what we had to say and we move on. And your stupid "thing" here keeps its reputation.

I disagree to you disagree-ing. But i don't have anything in particular, that i would like to highlight, that i agree with. Now i sound like i don't know how to have a good conversation on a forum. You see what you are doing ? You just put everything, that people say under the rug.

And also get this "cancer"-mentality out, that there needs to be a "change". The moment you act like that, now nobody is allowed to disagree with how the game works. Because now you can act as defending the game in its current state.

I enjoy reading about the flaws of the game, because it fills me in on the current situation by people, who play it in a reasonable way. Yeah, the text is still there, but it gets hammered down. You make it sound like "it has to be this way". And you ascend it to a level, where it starts sounding mechanical. Further and further away from our human experience.

I also refuse to acknowledge your "dps-multipliers" as something to be taken seriously. These are exactly gimmicks, so people can think highly of themselves, if they don't mind using them. It's about as dumb, as when you get stun-locked by a "tekken" player, who is probably thinking, that he is "good" for manually inputting commands, while you can't fight back. If anything, you guys are to me like the "deep-fried frogs" mentioned in an asmon video, where he was criticising mobile games. You've been exposed to it so long, that you think, that "it's just like water :D". "Gimmicking" your way to the top. I do see, that some PoE players in particular are attracted to that and i don't really mind that. But i don't like how you uphold your reputation by simply shutting up anybody who disagrees. Yeah, i disagree. I disagree. And i will disagree a thousand times more. You disagree ? I disagree. You play your game, i play mine. You ALL write what you think, i say what i think. If anybody cared.

Somewhere deep in your minds and maybe elsewhere too. The thought, that i am not. But i am. Small and timid. But i remain. You can take all your smash tier lists and beyond 150 pokémon and wipe them from the table. Because i am still here. And i am me, not you. But i can see where i am welcome and where not. Or better yet, where i am not welcome and where i am temporarily tolerated. It's like you have to turn into some kind of an anti-retard, where you first become retarded and then work your way up and then have to write something seemingly sophisticated, just so you can make a point, that gets put under the table anyway.

"

Blubbey wrote:

I also refuse to acknowledge your "dps-multipliers" as something to be taken seriously. These are exactly gimmicks, so people can think highly of themselves, if they don't mind using them. It's about as dumb, as when you get stun-locked by a "tekken" player, who is probably thinking, that he is "good" for manually inputting commands, while you can't fight back.

It's interesting that you mention fighting games, because they have a very well established pattern of 'getting good', for those that do want to improve.

- First you learn some basic moves, they should be hard to screw up and you should practice until you can do them without thinking
- Then you learn to deal with gimmicks that low rank players are doing, and it isn't just players that don't want to improve. In fighting games if you see something is working and that the opponent doesn't know how to deal with it there's no shame in keeping at it. Even pros do that when possible, because why would you win hard if you can win easy, it's their fault they don't know how to deal with it. This is the part where people generally start thinking they're good
- After that, you need a winning strategy, if there are moves you should learn to pull it off, you again practice until it's second nature, this is the part where you learn your character
- Then you learn how to counter good players that have some practice and a real strategy, you learn what other characters can do and what your character can do about it. This is the part where you usually think you're trash at the game and have a high chance of dropping it
- If you're still around you reach the long road of minor optimizations that doesn't really end

So, why did I write all this when it's more or less general knowledge? It's important to note that the above is a huge investment of proverbial blood and very real sweat and tears. Not everyone is willing to go through it, but that's what fighting games are selling, they have a rabid core following but aren't likely to hit broader appeal. Except maybe with ample offline content where casuals can fight the cpu, or if they also happen to make a good party game where people can have fun even if they know nothing.

And that's where the problem lies, people are mostly aware of what learning a fighting game entails, that's what the genre sells you, a journey of self-improvement. However, the kind of learning curve PoE sells you is extremely rare in the genre, and it just isn't what people interested in similar games expect or consider normal, or acceptable. But, the way I see it, a game that offers something like that can exist, there's obviously a niche for it, so it should exist and it's perfectly fine if it does its own thing.

Maybe the bottom line is that people should just be more aware about what PoE is really about, but often enough people don't know they wanted something like this in the first place until they try, so it wouldn't be a good idea to outright say 'blood, sweat and tears inside, no cookies'. In a way, it's the same thing that fighting games are trying to do with 'modern' control schemes, it's often a good idea to appear less scary, grow a big pink flower on that carnivorous plant.