There are no builds in PoE. Everything is just exploiting, abusing, and gimmicks
Each time I got into discussion like this thread, on this forum, it had always ended in 1 of 2 ways: either I made mistake in my facts, in which case apologized in next post and ceased to argue. Or (more often) it ended with me getting hammered with circular logic:
This game's balance is extremely bloated, and comprehensive post about a mechanic would be a wall of text. Let this wall include things A,B,C,D,.. to be considered comprehensive.
I posted my opinion mentioning things A and B for the sake of simplicity, and immediately got brushed away by "you don't know C, gitgud". I responded about C, and got "what about D, you are wrong". I respond about D, and got "what about A", from someone who either never read previous pages or didn't care to remember at all. So discussion proves impossible, and I shut up.
Ultimately it boils down to whether or not you are "taken seriously" in general, so people would actually remember you, and know you are supposed to have some background knowledge about C,D,.., and would actually give some thought to what you are trying to say, instead of latching onto obvious (and somewhat pleasant) responses about how you are wrong because not mentioning D right now.
So far, I have only seen these kind of "serious" relations between veteran players here, who are on this forum for years, and wrote a lot of posts between each other. And not between veteran players and new players losing their first 90% exp to death penalties. Won't repeat the "e" word again, but sometimes it just comes to mind naturally.
Instead of the payers being responsible to improve themselves and eventually achieve whatever it is they want to achieve
Extremely long wall of text to explain you dont like what I say and neither do you like the game
You don't make it sound like:
"Instead of the players being recognized for having put up with the game long enough to be able to have an opinion"
Just because "you can get there", it does not mean, that you should be allowed to make it sound like it's no big deal and every other input is put under the rug.
They should limit the input to 1 time only and to the thread only, so people like you don't hammer down everything, that ends up sounding reasonable.
The same way, that "build guides" remain unscathed, when there is a post reporting issues, because all that is seen is a high view- and reply-count.
You are all just hogging all the attention.
Most of the streamers look like they have some form of obsessive disorder. The only normal people barely make it into the game. Who do you think i would enjoy watching ? Btw..enjoy "watching" in times where i was too fed up to play it myself.
No achievement is great enough to validate an opinion, that gets otherwise invalidated. Somebody says something. You respond. Somebody says something. You respond. Or other people respond. What exactly are you promising us by having us "improve ourselves" ? Do you think i will praise the gameplay, that i find ? No. I will only get hammered down by people like you if i try to say, that i don't like it.
I often times heard over at Rhykker's how good "Grim Dawn" is. And i bought it on gog. And i played it a little bit, but i found it boring, so i stopped. I wasn't able to phrase why i disliked it. And any search only resulted in "giving the game more time", which is the equivalent of me wasting my time and still not being able to say how i dislike it, or the review praising the game. I literally had to search for "grim dawn boring" to start finding the right reviews, that resonated with how i felt while playing.
What is the bottom of the line ? The game keeps its reputation, people get lured to buy it, and that's all that happens. What i think doesn't matter.
It's the same over at some tech support. People follow x,y and z suggestions and are still stuck. What is the bottom line ? They waste their time and are not acknowledged in the way, that "something is wrong with the game".
You are just painting color over what people say. Burying corpses.
You can argue all you want. But you shift away attention, that you are not acknowledging other people's opinions. Why is it, that you can "disagree" and others cannot ? Imagine if we say "I disagree" to your "I disagree". And maybe even are lucky enough to write something, that makes us look smart. Wouldn't that paint the right picture of the actual situation ?
I don't have any interest in ascending to your sophisticated way of writing. I can dislike things as a baboon. The same goes for every other platform, that only shows good on surface, but hammers down any individual thought. As much as i appreciate your reasoning it is out of place, when you push away others with it. There is no "proving"-part, that we can do here. And getting lost in finding the right arguments to match your speech just strips us of what we had to say and we move on. And your stupid "thing" here keeps its reputation.
I disagree to you disagree-ing. But i don't have anything in particular, that i would like to highlight, that i agree with. Now i sound like i don't know how to have a good conversation on a forum. You see what you are doing ? You just put everything, that people say under the rug.
And also get this "cancer"-mentality out, that there needs to be a "change". The moment you act like that, now nobody is allowed to disagree with how the game works. Because now you can act as defending the game in its current state.
I enjoy reading about the flaws of the game, because it fills me in on the current situation by people, who play it in a reasonable way. Yeah, the text is still there, but it gets hammered down. You make it sound like "it has to be this way". And you ascend it to a level, where it starts sounding mechanical. Further and further away from our human experience.
I also refuse to acknowledge your "dps-multipliers" as something to be taken seriously. These are exactly gimmicks, so people can think highly of themselves, if they don't mind using them. It's about as dumb, as when you get stun-locked by a "tekken" player, who is probably thinking, that he is "good" for manually inputting commands, while you can't fight back. If anything, you guys are to me like the "deep-fried frogs" mentioned in an asmon video, where he was criticising mobile games. You've been exposed to it so long, that you think, that "it's just like water :D". "Gimmicking" your way to the top. I do see, that some PoE players in particular are attracted to that and i don't really mind that. But i don't like how you uphold your reputation by simply shutting up anybody who disagrees. Yeah, i disagree. I disagree. And i will disagree a thousand times more. You disagree ? I disagree. You play your game, i play mine. You ALL write what you think, i say what i think. If anybody cared.
Somewhere deep in your minds and maybe elsewhere too. The thought, that i am not. But i am. Small and timid. But i remain. You can take all your smash tier lists and beyond 150 pokémon and wipe them from the table. Because i am still here. And i am me, not you. But i can see where i am welcome and where not. Or better yet, where i am not welcome and where i am temporarily tolerated. It's like you have to turn into some kind of an anti-retard, where you first become retarded and then work your way up and then have to write something seemingly sophisticated, just so you can make a point, that gets put under the table anyway.
Dude, thats your opinion. Thats fine, I dont care and thats fine too.
I like the game the way it is, you dont. Cool.
Now what? Whats your point?
Some people advocate for change, because they dont like it the way it is and also cant move on to play something else.
Thats really what it boils down to and its as pathetic as it sounds.
They are also falling for the "ceteris paribus" fallacy almost every single time. This means they are advocating some sort of change, assuming everything else will remain the same afterwards and therefore their proposed change will affect the game positively.
Thats pretty much always false.
They dont even bother thinking about potential negative consequences. Those simply dont exist in their world.
When Im pointing those potential consequeces out or trying to help by pointing towards solutions, somebody is going to call me a "white knight" an "elitist" or whatever slander is en vogue at the time.
I ran out of fucks to give a long time ago.
You are entitled to your your opinion just as much as I am - that doesnt mean you are right nor does it mean I am right.
All it means is we do disagree. If you cant even agree to disagree and be cool with it, then why are you even posting here?
Each time I got into discussion like this thread, on this forum, it had always ended in 1 of 2 ways: either I made mistake in my facts, in which case apologized in next post and ceased to argue. Or (more often) it ended with me getting hammered with circular logic:
This game's balance is extremely bloated, and comprehensive post about a mechanic would be a wall of text. Let this wall include things A,B,C,D,.. to be considered comprehensive.
I posted my opinion mentioning things A and B for the sake of simplicity, and immediately got brushed away by "you don't know C, gitgud". I responded about C, and got "what about D, you are wrong". I respond about D, and got "what about A", from someone who either never read previous pages or didn't care to remember at all. So discussion proves impossible, and I shut up.
Ultimately it boils down to whether or not you are "taken seriously" in general, so people would actually remember you, and know you are supposed to have some background knowledge about C,D,.., and would actually give some thought to what you are trying to say, instead of latching onto obvious (and somewhat pleasant) responses about how you are wrong because not mentioning D right now.
So far, I have only seen these kind of "serious" relations between veteran players here, who are on this forum for years, and wrote a lot of posts between each other. And not between veteran players and new players losing their first 90% exp to death penalties. Won't repeat the "e" word again, but sometimes it just comes to mind naturally.
A lot can be lost to simplifying the babble.
I didn’t read all on your post. I’m not gonna, you can’t make me.
Abcde, gitgud, circular arguments, deathpenalties, e word, taken seri……
???!!!what is happening!!!!???
Keep things concise.
No one’s interested in reading patch notes about someone’s opinion on 14 different things in a post🙃
I didn’t read all on your post. I’m not gonna, you can’t make me.
Abcde, gitgud, circular arguments, deathpenalties, e word, taken seri……
???!!!what is happening!!!!???
Keep things concise.
No one’s interested in reading patch notes about someone’s opinion on 14 different things in a post🙃
Replying to someone whose posts you deliberately don't read is a proper discussion indeed. You may not remember me, but I remember some of your posts, and how you always manage to illustrate my previous point spectacularly, thank you :)
If you are not interested, okay.
Last edited by Echothesis#7320 on Jan 17, 2023, 4:07:44 PM
I didn’t read all on your post. I’m not gonna, you can’t make me.
Abcde, gitgud, circular arguments, deathpenalties, e word, taken seri……
???!!!what is happening!!!!???
Keep things concise.
No one’s interested in reading patch notes about someone’s opinion on 14 different things in a post🙃
Replying to someone whose posts you deliberately don't read is a proper discussion indeed. You may not remember me, but I remember some of your posts, and how you always manage to illustrate my previous point spectacularly, thank you :)
If you are not interested, okay.
Thats not... no!
Im telling you to get to the point and simplify. Like conversations, interviews, talking.
When you talk with your friends. Do you guys have long winded paragraphs at each other? No.
An example of what I mean is something POE just changed this league!
Magma Barrier (old rare mob modifier)
Spoiler
50% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage
25% of Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage
30% increased Fire Damage
+40% to Fire Resistance
25% additional Physical Damage Reduction
Surrounded by a Magma Barrier that takes 90% of Damage from Hits up to a fixed amount
When the Magma Barrier is depleted it explodes for massive Fire Damage
Barrier returns 10 seconds after exploding
Periodically spawns Volatile Flamebloods that chases the player while within 70 units of a player[4], accelerating over time (9 second cooldown)
Versus rares now:
Is fire and ignite resistant.
Spoiler
Is fire and ignite resistant.
Simplify, sleek, easy to understand. Succeed.
At least if you want people to read your posts. Up to you though
Im telling you to get to the point and simplify. Like conversations, interviews, talking.
You are right, problem is, one cannot talk simple about PoE balance, it is too bloated. When someone tries to simplify, people assume he is either noob or dumb (or both) and reply with everything he "forgot to mention". Only way to get past that is if others already know what you imply, without explicitly writing wall of text about it. And many of these others unfortunately aren't generous with credits of trust, and prefer to think you are a noob.
Last edited by Echothesis#7320 on Jan 17, 2023, 5:53:31 PM
- First you learn some basic moves, they should be hard to screw up and you should practice until you can do them without thinking
- Then you learn to deal with gimmicks that low rank players are doing, and it isn't just players that don't want to improve.
reminds me on how sanctum tries to teach players the very very basics of arpgs and specifically poe by making a whole league around the meme "just don't get hit, forehead".
it's funny, especially when people then write posts about what a failure such a league concept is in their opinion, it tells more about the player type than the league itself.
and it tells alot about the degenerated main game: "reddit's non-gamers" laughed at chris when he claimed that the game can't let people into the game too fast cause that would demotivate them, yet the majority of players is still thinking that more damage solves every challenge cause the "poopsocked league mode" gives plenty of it, until they started ruthless and discover that there is still a real arpg behind the concept of poe.
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
You are right, problem is, one cannot talk simple about PoE balance, it is too bloated. When someone tries to simplify, people assume he is either noob or dumb
Cant speak for others but thats not where Im coming from. I can assure you that.
What you call bloated is the essence of the game for me.
So trying to get rid of the "bloat" or simplify the game as you phrased equals D3 snoozefest for me.
I dont want that.
I want endless options instead.
Many of those will be dead ends until someone comes up with a cool way to incorporate into a build or a mechanic changes and all the sudden its synergizes well with something else and you can build around it.
Thats cool.
I love it and thats what PoE is all about.
Thats why I push back against simplifying and streamlinig and all of that stuff.
Last edited by Orbaal#0435 on Jan 17, 2023, 7:09:57 PM
I agree with the gimmick thing, it's a turn off the way builds are done in this game, and i think it could be better if things were just a little more logical
Last edited by Fraktal_#5973 on Jan 21, 2023, 3:18:52 AM
