Character Balance Changes - Summoners

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Marinxar wrote:

As long as your build don't rely on the survivability of Specters and Zombies, you can actually make much stronger builds now with the changes made, and the new options available.

Which builds and how would they be much stronger? Please don't suggest that bone rings and shields will be what makes summoners OP. All minions lost up to 580% crit chance and 33% attack/cast speed on top of nerfs to specific gems. The new minion mods would have to be ridiculously powerful to compensate, and all we got to see were terrible rolls on one bone ring as reassurance.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

Which builds and how would they be much stronger? Please don't suggest that bone rings and shields will be what makes summoners OP.

Start taking a good long look at other ascendancies.

Occultist and Elementalist, even Guardian, are contesting Necros position in the spotlight. It all depends on what sort of dmg your minions are going to deal and how you intend to take care of you defense as well as the minions defenses.
Its not that bad and you dont need all that new stuff to achieve respectable numbers. No need for doom & gloom just yet.


Out of curiosity and boredom I started to work on a PoB for chaos/poison skellie occ. Its still work in progress, but it was still dishing out about 30-35 mill dmg just by equipping about 4-5 gearpieces and allocating about 50-60 skillpoints. No awakened gems, no clusters, just the regular minion nodes on the tree.

I had to dial it back quite a bit to achieve a minimum survivability I expect. Its still not done and I might never finish it, it was just for fun and to kill some time.
Also skellies will receive a nerf to added dmg and poison will receive a hopefully significant buff, so PoB is kinda pointless right now.
However as of current patch/pob, they´d deal some 15-20 mill on roughly 10-15ex budget or whatever that means next league.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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Marinxar wrote:

As long as your build don't rely on the survivability of Specters and Zombies, you can actually make much stronger builds now with the changes made, and the new options available.

Which builds and how would they be much stronger? Please don't suggest that bone rings and shields will be what makes summoners OP. All minions lost up to 580% crit chance and 33% attack/cast speed on top of nerfs to specific gems. The new minion mods would have to be ridiculously powerful to compensate, and all we got to see were terrible rolls on one bone ring as reassurance.

minion builds can get an additional +3 to all minion gems next patch which makes up for the lost global +2 on necro

on top of that they get rings and shields with minion stats

necro looks kinba bad now but minions overall stay the same if not stronger
the big change is they really need gear now

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ciel289 wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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Marinxar wrote:

As long as your build don't rely on the survivability of Specters and Zombies, you can actually make much stronger builds now with the changes made, and the new options available.

Which builds and how would they be much stronger? Please don't suggest that bone rings and shields will be what makes summoners OP. All minions lost up to 580% crit chance and 33% attack/cast speed on top of nerfs to specific gems. The new minion mods would have to be ridiculously powerful to compensate, and all we got to see were terrible rolls on one bone ring as reassurance.

minion builds can get an additional +3 to all minion gems next patch which makes up for the lost global +2 on necro

on top of that they get rings and shields with minion stats

necro looks kinba bad now but minions overall stay the same if not stronger
the big change is they really need gear now

Where? I looked at the patch notes and the only mention of +3 is the helmet mod which got removed and replaced with +2 all minion gems. The closest thing to what you're talking about is the corruption for +2 socketed minion gems.

Rings and shields are a straight nerf. You can't look at the loss of bonuses from charges and think that those items will be able to compensate nearly enough for them. Bear in mind that summoners lost a grand total of 580% crit chance and 33% attack and cast speed on top of stat nerfs to certain specific gems.

So poor players get screwed. Again. They won't even get to enjoy summoners as a viable league starter option anymore. Assuming summoners will be more powerful this league than before (which I very heavily doubt, and nobody's made any compelling argument to prove it), this will only be of benefit to players who can make mountains of divine orbs. Everyone else has to be content with either being a glass cannon or a tank with no hope in doing any one of a growing number of timed league encounters.

GGG Business model...

Ask for donations/support on the front end. Tencent runs the pay to win shops on the back end. Win/win.

The heavy itemization and currency changes are there to push casuals into the shops. It really is that simple.

Tencent prints items and currency. Those shops now add a big influx into the game. That of course means the other half of the game needs to be choked down and controlled.

When tencent purchased the game the business model changed... Before tencent the game was plagued with farmers and bots. look at things now.

Tencent does not want casual players... Period. As with any business they want paying customers.

Summoners will be fine... As long as you fall into the right player group ( pay to win ).

Do a domain lookup on these sites and see where they point... All roads lead to greed and profit.

NS

As for running a casual summoner... those days are coming to an end.

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Nightstone13 wrote:

GGG Business model...

Ask for donations/support on the front end. Tencent runs the pay to win shops on the back end. Win/win.

The heavy itemization and currency changes are there to push casuals into the shops. It really is that simple.

Tencent prints items and currency. Those shops now add a big influx into the game. That of course means the other half of the game needs to be choked down and controlled.

When tencent purchased the game the business model changed... Before tencent the game was plagued with farmers and bots. look at things now.

Tencent does not want casual players... Period. As with any business they want paying customers.

Summoners will be fine... As long as you fall into the right player group ( pay to win ).

Do a domain lookup on these sites and see where they point... All roads lead to greed and profit.

NS

As for running a casual summoner... those days are coming to an end.

delusion is real in this one :D

Prove its not delusional... Some simple lookups tell the whole story... Hmmm... I wonder who owns those sites... Oh my...

Imagine a company as aggressive and greedy as tencent not trying to maximize profit.

At least I can say im not ignorant...

NS

Imagine shops IN CHINA selling tencents property without their okay... Yep delusion.

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anti4z500 wrote:

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Nightstone13 wrote:

GGG Business model...

Ask for donations/support on the front end. Tencent runs the pay to win shops on the back end. Win/win.

The heavy itemization and currency changes are there to push casuals into the shops. It really is that simple.

Tencent prints items and currency. Those shops now add a big influx into the game. That of course means the other half of the game needs to be choked down and controlled.

When tencent purchased the game the business model changed... Before tencent the game was plagued with farmers and bots. look at things now.

Tencent does not want casual players... Period. As with any business they want paying customers.

Summoners will be fine... As long as you fall into the right player group ( pay to win ).

Do a domain lookup on these sites and see where they point... All roads lead to greed and profit.

NS

As for running a casual summoner... those days are coming to an end.

delusion is real in this one :D

Then there are the currency changes... Who does flipping the economy over benefit? The players? LOL.

Here is another fun one... Why is there no auction house? It de-valuates. When things lose value who loses profit?

On and On and on...

Just delusions...

NS

Minion top end damage MAYBE will be higher...with max damage and speed rolls on all new minion gear. Yes, even accounting for the charge loss.

HOWEVER

That doesn't really matter, because if you are forced to roll ALL of those stats and shoehorn yourself into those base item types, you lose: ALL defenses whether they are resistances or straight up life/es, much-needed gem sockets from rings, tree defenses due to extra pathing for similar minion passive buffs, etc.

As far as total gem levels for minions: we lose +2 from necro, we GAIN +2 from helm. Net = 0. We lose 1 from +3socket helm, we gain BACK +2 from a corruption. Net loss = 1. Basically we only get +1 to helm socketed minions (+2 with +2 corrupt), and every other minion breaks completely even except now we have to give up a helm affix to make up for the necro loss. Let's also not forget how absolutely insane its gonna be to create a minion helm AND THEN corrupt it for the +2. Good minion helms with no corrupt were already mirror tier in previous leagues. Sure, now all other classes have access to +2 tho. So...wonderful...

Nerf, nerf, nerf, nerfs everywhere. So many people are so shortsighted they get blinded with shiny new gear stats and forget that summoners were ALREADY starved for gear stats before these changes and we now lose 2-3 modslots on each ring + shield, along with 1 helm slot if you aren't running a helm-slotted minion.

I CAN'T believe they also nerfed Tavukai...instability SRS was already a rather niche build, and it really didn't do over-the-top dps. But...it's a minion so...gutted. Ed: At least in this part I totally forgot about the 20% more base life on the gem itself (plus the damage but that doesnt really matter). Doesn't make up the difference but its not an obscene nerf.

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Nightstone13 wrote:

Then there are the currency changes... Who does flipping the economy over benefit? The players? LOL.

Here is another fun one... Why is there no auction house? It de-valuates. When things lose value who loses profit?

On and On and on...

Just delusions...

NS

To be fair, it never made sense that divines were so common AND under utilized.

Also we need to consider that this change probably has something to do with how poe 2 is changing the socket system fundamentally.

And in what major way is it changing it? well no more 6s sockets OR 6 links on gear since the current plan is to put said sockets on the gems.

That means the divine recipe days were always numbered. Gotta rip that band-aid off.