Character Balance Changes - Summoners

"

zzang wrote:

Dear Necro enjoyers.

Former Gladiator player here asking:

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

Zombies are a joke.
SRS is a joke.
Phantasms are a joke.
Absolution and Dominating blow haven't been in a good spot in a long time.
Warrior and archer skeletons have been non-viable since EE got gutted and several aura-based cluster jewels got removed.
Spectres haven't been useful for anything outside of support minions since they fixed the Syndicate Operative attacks.
Nobody uses AG for anything outside of support due to risk of losing their gear on death.
Reaper is a meme that's supposed to be used exclusively, but can't compete with the minions you're not allowed to use.
Animate Weapon depends on too many things to actually be good.

Then there's the shoehorning of archnemesis to the game making not only those minions less useful, but also every other non-meta build in the game has become that much harder to play.

And what is GGG's solution? Blanket nerfs to summoners across the board. One ascendancy got gutted and moved its old bonus to helmets. Charges on minions have the same effects as it does on players. The crit chance mastery was removed, split up, and put into a large cluster which means more passive investment for what will likely amount to less crit than before.

Look, I get that mage skeletons have been OP for a while. I don't think the solution to that problem was to hit the entire archetype while also making it even more gear dependent.

You're deluding yourself if you don't think +2 all minion gem mods on helmets isn't going to be ridiculously overpriced. What summoner builds even use physical damage minions these days to make Unholy Might even worth considering, especially when most minions are in a bad spot right now? Just remove the ascendancy.

The charge changes have made it so carnage and host chieftains are probably not going to be used anymore. Going from 600% crit chance to 120%, 45% increased attack and cast speed to 12% plus no movement speed is a colossal hit for all minions. Do you really think that new minion critical cluster is going to compensate for that when it also has to deal with the removal of the minion crit mastery being removed?

They're making bone shields plus rings which can get minion modifiers. That sounds nice and all until you consider that unless you're immensely rich, you're stuck with either running a glass cannon or a tank that absolutely has no chance in ever engaging in timed league encounters or farming maps in a reasonable timeframe.

The small buffs made to a couple of the bad minions I mentioned at the start of the thread amount to nothing in the wake of the blanket nerfs also hitting them.

Summoners are no longer going to be league starter-friendly because of these changes, and I expect the only minions that might be viable are ones that could make use of the poison, ignite, and bleed buffs. Don't bring up Holy Relic with me. They only attack when you do, making them more of an extension of your offensive capabilities than an actual minion.

I'm just gonna wait for the patch notes. If archnemesis doesn't get touched at all this upcoming league, I'm skipping PoE for the first time since I started playing. I don't play this game to not play a summoner. And remembering that Chris has said they're experimenting with doing balance changes every other league, that means I'm skipping the next 2 coming up.

Summoners are likely shaping up to be a dead archetype, given what we've seen so far.

"

DTACGaming wrote:

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

Zombies are a joke.
SRS is a joke.
Phantasms are a joke.
Absolution and Dominating blow haven't been in a good spot in a long time.
Warrior and archer skeletons have been non-viable since EE got gutted and several aura-based cluster jewels got removed.
Spectres haven't been useful for anything outside of support minions since they fixed the Syndicate Operative attacks.
Nobody uses AG for anything outside of support due to risk of losing their gear on death.
Reaper is a meme that's supposed to be used exclusively, but can't compete with the minions you're not allowed to use.
Animate Weapon depends on too many things to actually be good.

Then there's the shoehorning of archnemesis to the game making not only those minions less useful, but also every other non-meta build in the game has become that much harder to play.

And what is GGG's solution? Blanket nerfs to summoners across the board. One ascendancy got gutted and moved its old bonus to helmets. Charges on minions have the same effects as it does on players. The crit chance mastery was removed, split up, and put into a large cluster which means more passive investment for what will likely amount to less crit than before.

Look, I get that mage skeletons have been OP for a while. I don't think the solution to that problem was to hit the entire archetype while also making it even more gear dependent.

You're deluding yourself if you don't think +2 all minion gem mods on helmets isn't going to be ridiculously overpriced. What summoner builds even use physical damage minions these days to make Unholy Might even worth considering, especially when most minions are in a bad spot right now? Just remove the ascendancy.

The charge changes have made it so carnage and host chieftains are probably not going to be used anymore. Going from 600% crit chance to 120%, 45% increased attack and cast speed to 12% plus no movement speed is a colossal hit for all minions. Do you really think that new minion critical cluster is going to compensate for that when it also has to deal with the removal of the minion crit mastery being removed?

They're making bone shields plus rings which can get minion modifiers. That sounds nice and all until you consider that unless you're immensely rich, you're stuck with either running a glass cannon or a tank that absolutely has no chance in ever engaging in timed league encounters or farming maps in a reasonable timeframe.

The small buffs made to a couple of the bad minions I mentioned at the start of the thread amount to nothing in the wake of the blanket nerfs also hitting them.

Summoners are no longer going to be league starter-friendly because of these changes, and I expect the only minions that might be viable are ones that could make use of the poison, ignite, and bleed buffs. Don't bring up Holy Relic with me. They only attack when you do, making them more of an extension of your offensive capabilities than an actual minion.

I'm just gonna wait for the patch notes. If archnemesis doesn't get touched at all this upcoming league, I'm skipping PoE for the first time since I started playing. I don't play this game to not play a summoner. And remembering that Chris has said they're experimenting with doing balance changes every other league, that means I'm skipping the next 2 coming up.

Summoners are likely shaping up to be a dead archetype, given what we've seen so far.

https://pastebin.com/UPANQmnK

Phys minion build which is better than the Skele Mages

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

"

DTACGaming wrote:

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

Zombies are a joke.
SRS is a joke.
Phantasms are a joke.
Absolution and Dominating blow haven't been in a good spot in a long time.
Warrior and archer skeletons have been non-viable since EE got gutted and several aura-based cluster jewels got removed.
Spectres haven't been useful for anything outside of support minions since they fixed the Syndicate Operative attacks.
Nobody uses AG for anything outside of support due to risk of losing their gear on death.
Reaper is a meme that's supposed to be used exclusively, but can't compete with the minions you're not allowed to use.
Animate Weapon depends on too many things to actually be good.

Then there's the shoehorning of archnemesis to the game making not only those minions less useful, but also every other non-meta build in the game has become that much harder to play.

And what is GGG's solution? Blanket nerfs to summoners across the board. One ascendancy got gutted and moved its old bonus to helmets. Charges on minions have the same effects as it does on players. The crit chance mastery was removed, split up, and put into a large cluster which means more passive investment for what will likely amount to less crit than before.

Look, I get that mage skeletons have been OP for a while. I don't think the solution to that problem was to hit the entire archetype while also making it even more gear dependent.

You're deluding yourself if you don't think +2 all minion gem mods on helmets isn't going to be ridiculously overpriced. What summoner builds even use physical damage minions these days to make Unholy Might even worth considering, especially when most minions are in a bad spot right now? Just remove the ascendancy.

The charge changes have made it so carnage and host chieftains are probably not going to be used anymore. Going from 600% crit chance to 120%, 45% increased attack and cast speed to 12% plus no movement speed is a colossal hit for all minions. Do you really think that new minion critical cluster is going to compensate for that when it also has to deal with the removal of the minion crit mastery being removed?

They're making bone shields plus rings which can get minion modifiers. That sounds nice and all until you consider that unless you're immensely rich, you're stuck with either running a glass cannon or a tank that absolutely has no chance in ever engaging in timed league encounters or farming maps in a reasonable timeframe.

The small buffs made to a couple of the bad minions I mentioned at the start of the thread amount to nothing in the wake of the blanket nerfs also hitting them.

Summoners are no longer going to be league starter-friendly because of these changes, and I expect the only minions that might be viable are ones that could make use of the poison, ignite, and bleed buffs. Don't bring up Holy Relic with me. They only attack when you do, making them more of an extension of your offensive capabilities than an actual minion.

I'm just gonna wait for the patch notes. If archnemesis doesn't get touched at all this upcoming league, I'm skipping PoE for the first time since I started playing. I don't play this game to not play a summoner. And remembering that Chris has said they're experimenting with doing balance changes every other league, that means I'm skipping the next 2 coming up.

Summoners are likely shaping up to be a dead archetype, given what we've seen so far.

https://pastebin.com/UPANQmnK

Phys minion build which is better than the Skele Mages

2 perfect wands with huge amount of fractured mods

Mageblood

Voices jewel

How many mirrors did the whole thing cost you? I wonder if that same level of investment would make mage skeletons better.

The spell suppression nerfs coming up is going to wreck this build, or make it even more expensive to fix the issues it's going to have.

"

DTACGaming wrote:

Well obviously this is min maxed but with the changes this will probably be 1 of the strongest minion builds for next league.

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

"

DTACGaming wrote:

Well obviously this is min maxed but with the changes this will probably be 1 of the strongest minion builds for next league.

Given what we've seen of the summoner changes proposed in the manifesto, you're probably right.

That doesn't really bode well for poorer players, though, who can't afford to min-max their gear. This is going to hit them the hardest, and I expect a budget version of this build in 3.19 is going to be a far cry from what it would be now.