I can't believe this game still runs like garbage after all this time. (Get the new engine already)

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

They need to make a new game, period.

It's funny how far you and Chris are from each other. While you think the best option is to make a new game because all of this content piled together over the years, is making PoE an unplayable monstrosity, Chris claims that the amount of content added over the years, was one of the main reasons they didn't make a new game.

I think in hindsight we always were but until it so massively impacted the game's quality it wasn't that big a problem. I've always been a fan of PoE's basic model of longevity and the league idea, and for quite a few years I was all about it. After all, without that, we wouldn't have had the glorious apotheosis of PoE that was the Legacy league!

But I don't think he'd disagree with me were I to say that PoE has passed the threshold for new content as a justification for not making a new game based on what they've learned so far. Without getting into specifics, I'd say it's less a devotion to adding content than it is a staunch desire not to go through the process of making an entirely new game given how rough it was on GGG staff the first (and so far only) time. It's like that old joke of when an author is asked by an aspiring writer, 'what advice can you give me starting off?' and responds swiftly with almost a smile, 'don't'. There's a pause to make sure it lands as a joke, and then the author demurs and gives more positive advice. Was it a joke? Maybe. Was it also a moment of clarity? Absolutely.

I definitely read into GGG's disinterest in making a game that builds on everything they've learned from Path of Exile as evidence that for them it was always business first, creativity second. Developers start sequels well before the first game has started to flag financially, at least back when games were products and not services. I suppose this comes back to the question of 'what is a sequel in the age of the GAAS?' Unfortunately, the answer is inevitably 'not an entirely new game' because people like the service provided by the first. They've invested in it (financially or otherwise), and like a soap opera, they want it to be a comfy mix of familiar and new. That's how you keep people hooked.

Typically that's fine, but when you have a game as good as PoE could be and a studio so constrained by the game's limitations they need to show off concept art rather than let the game speak for itself, it's really painful to watch it all go to waste. Sure, it's making serious bank, so if that's as far as your idea of 'success' goes, I have no argument. But there is a game that GGG will probably never make that could have done more than turn the ARPG nostalgia into a GAAS hook; it could have made Diablo look like the Street Fighter 1 of ARPGs. Instead it's more like the King of Fighters of ARPGs -- hardcore fanbase, ridiculously complicated, and even at its best it looks weirdly outdated. Or worse, Dead or Alive -- the last game had something like 800 cosmetic mtxes, one of which was to simply change skins (sound familiar?)...

At any rate, I benefit from being an observer and thinking PoE has taught GGG more than enough to make an incredible follow-up game; Chris has to think in terms of profitability and sustainability, and in that light, PoE continues to perform magnificently.

"

Mikrotherion wrote:

The main problem with PoE seems to be inconsistent performance. My wife's playing Sentinel on her computer and there was no drop in performance after Part 1, nor now on early maps.
There are people who claim the game does not run on their $5000 computer that handles everything else you throw on it, whereas I had no issues in the leagues pre-Sentinel on my rig on a computer that is now 5 years old with a 3GB Nvidia 1060 and on an operating system that is not officially supported.

Is that engine related? We don't know.
No one not working on the PoEngine can know whether the game would run better if it used Godot, UE5, CryEngine or Unity.
Since the commercial engines don't cost anything these days unless you actually sell a product made with them, I'd be surprised if there hadn't been tests at GGG-HQ with one of them. But again, I don't know.
However, I do believe that an engine tailored for a task and evolving with said task could be better at this special task than a very well made all purpose engine.
People who say that this was a fact (or that the contrary was), however, just sell things as facts that are merely speculation.

This is fair enough. Perhaps I was simply lucky or spoiled so far. Just please imagine my basic disappointment at how the game performed despite me having a fairly new video card that should, by all rights, not have any trouble with PoE at all given the other games it can handle.

Cryengine for an ARPG? Well, that's another conversation and not one for the faint-hearted, or even outside of this forum's Off Topic board. ;)

What is the crux of your argument then? Is this on the user or the developer?

My expectation is that the game wouldn't function on a traditional engine, from a user perspective i've never played a game that has the number of interactions going on constantly that wasn't omega simple like vampire survivors.

Wolcen is on Cryengine apparently Happychan, I was looking it up as I thought it would be Unity but nope. 2D Arpg on Godot would be brilliant but would work for the same reasons vampire survivors does when it comes down to it. Unity is super popular but I honestly think that Unity's primary draw isn't the strength of the platform its the common talent pool you get access to.

Honestly its complicated, you'd need to have intimate knowledge of what GGG work with and how its been iterated on through the years but also be an expert in the other engines to know how things would translate. Picking and moving doesn't work if you are designing a game liable to hit bottlenecks which is exactly was a proprietary engine is for now IMO.

For myself aside from what i'll just call major failures that being crashes or hard freezes that tend to be associated with every league performance in PoE has been solid for me for years and my desktop is... 9 years old now? Sure If i mega juice a map it chugs and starts to look like a childs potato stamp art piece but the map density ensures I wouldn't be able to see what was going on whether i was in 4k or 300x200.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Really? This is exactly what they wrote that I "lol'd" to that apparently offended your senses. Put the parts in bold I found laughable.

Thats why almost all of today games have performance problems. You are free to prove me wrong. Cry, UE5 and even Unity choke with 10% PoE's on-screen bulshit. Show me 1 engine that could be better for PoE then current one and i bet that i will find games that work like dogshit on it.

"

vmt80 wrote:

Stroggly disagree. Theirs advaced devlopemented enginezation. This is a PROFESONALY game, I have quadrupaled-poweredly hard core pc with advandcedly memorizated card, overcupped graphic mtx procesoring, actuly plyer mouse with sensitively butoned optionizing,cooling supresion with hhddd mother boarded, you take layred defeces, optimizized virusatack and best marketized pro gear. I can prety much fully juicing and still defaultack Siriusblack no probelem.

Obviousy theirs hardwarring issue.

Capitalization all acrous the natio
Layaerd defeces
Spelling suppression 100%
Tft tradization profesionaly
Obercupped resistance
Tailwounded profesionally tft bootization

Can autto attack sirus black delirius awaken 100% farmetization

GGG is the home of some of the best programmers on the planet.


To make your own engine to this degree and then make it run on Vulkan (which I think was a custom job) is _not_ easy.


Also, PoE used to be a flagship on the Vulkan engine site - but I can't seem to find them in the list now. I do find a ton of well known games there, some of which I know to have been made in Unity and yea, Unity supports Vulkan but that's not the same challenge.


But yea, the bazillion things going on in the game make it a heavy game. I think that's gone a bit overboard. But programming is not design.


Anyway, I don't know what kind of an effect the new engine will have, or that they've been gradually moving towards a new codebase, or whatever. I do know that if the game keeps exploding with effects it will just be a demanding thing to run smooth in any case.

"

kaepae wrote:

GGG is the home of some of the best programmers on the planet.

Jesus...

Well I dont think I can continue on in this thread honestly. We have transcended from what little reality was remaining.

The advanced programmers in the US, China, India, UK, and Germany just to name a few, would be shocked to learn that a handful of dudes on a beautiful island are running laps around their limited minds.

Have a good weekend everyone!

Edit

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Have a good weekend everyone!

Thanks, you too!

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

Wolcen is on Cryengine apparently Happychan

It absolutely is done with the cryengine and looks gorgeous for it despite how much the devs clearly wrestled with it, and that's why I said to my old pal Therion any conversation about that would have to be in Off-Topic AND would require a lot of fortitude because it's not as if Wolcen has anything approaching a good reputation even with its few remaining players; the discord is full of people happily dumping on the devs and the devs not even making excuses why they can't even do a monthly update anymore.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

"

kaepae wrote:

GGG is the home of some of the best programmers on the planet.

Jesus...

Well I dont think I can continue on in this thread honestly. We have transcended from what little reality was remaining.

To be fair DS44, kaepae did say 'some of'. This is not an absolute and leaves plenty of wiggle room for verisimilitude. I do agree that they pulled off some miracles by creating their own engine in a garage and then somehow making it work for over a decade despite everything (including dealing with Vulkan, which I think was the final straw for my playthrough -- switching to it removed the microstutters but made load times awful and tanked my fps in act 6), but that's faint praise -- you could say the same of someone who built their own car and kept it running as a premium 'bespoke' service taxi for ten years when it would have been safer, cheaper and better for the clients if they'd just bought one with the money made from the first few years of taxi service.

But I guess there's some charm factor in there...okay, shitty analogy but like you said, have a nice weekend. :)

On geforcenow service playing poe and I have zero performance issues. There was a small bump when geforcenow had streaming issues and then again this last patch that was reversed.

It doesn't run poorly at all.

Your hardware sounds impressive, please press f1 with the full stats and check what might be causing what you experience.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I'm not even going to respond in detail to anyone that says PoE cannot be run better by any of today's modern engines

Cannot really see anyone claiming that/saying that.

All am saying, is that a person that can't really tell me how or why, doesn't really know either, he just believes.

"

JoeUtopia wrote:

If you believe an engine developed over ten years ago as a home grown project works as well a current commercial engine, well…. Lol.

Did I say that I believe that? No. All am saying, is that I don't KNOW. Neither do you, probably.

I don't KNOW how many parts of the engine made "10 years ago" are left now. I don't KNOW how much of the engine is written by GGG, how much is outsourced, how much is made yesterday. I don't know how many lines of code have remained from Unreal Engine 1 in 1997 to Unreal Engine 5 today.

But I firmly believe that Unreal Engine 5 isn't the "best engine" for every single video gaming task in existence. I think there are several engines out there, tailored for ONE use - that can handle the task they are tailored for better than a commercial engine, aimed to solve many tasks.

Again, I'm not saying PoE's engine is great. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's decent. I don't have more knowledge about gaming engines and API's than the random guy on the street, that's why I don't bash it; because I don't know. The difference here, is that a lot of people in here THINK they know, but they don't.

That's why I will believe the person who tells me how or why a certain engine would do better - ibecause he shows me he KNOWS.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

This is exactly what they wrote

My bad, I can see that know. He think he "KNOWS", just like other persons in here thinking they "KNOW" the opposite.

You just ignored my second sentence. None of us knows (those of us here) and that was my point. So asking for proof is unrealistic. Also, reading more of the responses, there are many things that we, as consumers, can point to that are sub par in comparison to other titles. And, I am tired of hearing about the complexity of this title….because if that is the limiting factor, then maybe GGG should do better with optimization.