This end game grind is excruciating and I don't like it.

"

LiMA6 wrote:

if you don't plan on grinding games made by grinding gear games, such that playing less than 80 hours a week would yield you a build capable of everything and not getting 1-shot, then why would there be a need at all for getting big fancy gear when mediocre gear can do everything.

plus, if you don't plan on getting one-shot, just play low tier white maps, then its easy to not get one shot, no?

And not being condescendant would bee a good start...

He has valid points in his posts. No games should be treated as work becausee they are games !! A way of getting youself out of this fucking world for a couple of hours and have fun...

The problemm is :

PoE is not fun anymore and have not been since 3.6.
The power that has been drawn out of practically every build is not good.
GGG is shifting powers every 3 months because they don't have any clue on how to balance the game as a whole (whom had thought that power level 83 mobs in a level 69 heist was a good thing ?)

Frustrating players and destroying their builds is not a sustainable way of doing things !!

this game is unkind to casuals, ill give you that. but ive come across some players who have very limited play time and they succeed well.

i think people who play poe enjoy the difficulty, complexity and try to push it to its limits.

what i don't get is why people complain about getting one shot or not having an ez game when little effort is put into builds, knowledge. if you have all the knowledge and know-how with builds, imagine what sorta content streamers would be providing every league. boring same nonsense. they wont even be needed in fact. this game is meant to be hard for more than many reasons.

and ive offered the idea of playing white low tier maps, but seeing theres no response, u must not find that satisfactory -- so i give another option: if u just like to kill stuff, why not play standard with gear accumulated across the years since pre-3.6 of less than 80 hours a week cumulated? .... but no, you wanna be part of the league for some reason.......

of course there are other easier games where you just kill stuff and put no effort, so why play poe at all then?

"

Azarhiel wrote:

He has valid points in his posts.

I don't think so, but hey, all the power to you guys for having your opinion.

No games should be treated as work becausee they are games !! A way of getting youself out of this fucking world for a couple of hours and have fun...
I don't think this world is a "fucking world". whether or not a game feels like work to somebody is subject to his/her individual perception. If the game feels that way to a person and if that person doesn't like that, then the person should not play it. I don't play games I don't like. I don't play games where the things I don't like outweigh the things I like.

The problemm is :

PoE is not fun anymore and have not been since 3.6.
I'm really sorry for you, I truly am. I'm having fun, although I think there is still a lot to criticize!

The power that has been drawn out of practically every build is not good.
I can only (again) say that build diversity (even if we say u r right and it is limited) is still bigger than any other arpg is or ever was.

GGG is shifting powers every 3 months because they don't have any clue on how to balance the game as a whole (whom had thought that power level 83 mobs in a level 69 heist was a good thing ?)
I think they are not the greatest at balancing but it's not too bad either, except for melee (that is awful currently). Since I have considered looking at life with the stance of: "der weg ist das ziel" (the journey is the reward) I have started to enjoy life more and games that change a lot, too.

Frustrating players and destroying their builds is not a sustainable way of doing things !!
To be precise: 10 years of going "a not sustainable way"....successfully ;p.

I still think the biggest problem is lack of QoL. Too much info is spread all over the internet and hard to access for beginners and intermediate players.

"

Antigegner wrote:

"

Azarhiel wrote:

He has valid points in his posts.

I don't think so, but hey, all the power to you guys for having your opinion.

No games should be treated as work becausee they are games !! A way of getting youself out of this fucking world for a couple of hours and have fun...
I don't think this world is a "fucking world". whether or not a game feels like work to somebody is subject to his/her individual perception. If the game feels that way to a person and if that person doesn't like that, then the person should not play it. I don't play games I don't like. I don't play games where the things I don't like outweigh the things I like.

The problemm is :

PoE is not fun anymore and have not been since 3.6.
I'm really sorry for you, I truly am. I'm having fun, although I think there is still a lot to criticize!

The power that has been drawn out of practically every build is not good.
I can only (again) say that build diversity (even if we say u r right and it is limited) is still bigger than any other arpg is or ever was.

GGG is shifting powers every 3 months because they don't have any clue on how to balance the game as a whole (whom had thought that power level 83 mobs in a level 69 heist was a good thing ?)
I think they are not the greatest at balancing but it's not too bad either, except for melee (that is awful currently). Since I have considered looking at life with the stance of: "der weg ist das ziel" (the journey is the reward) I have started to enjoy life more and games that change a lot, too.

Frustrating players and destroying their builds is not a sustainable way of doing things !!
To be precise: 10 years of going "a not sustainable way"....successfully ;p.

I still think the biggest problem is lack of QoL. Too much info is spread all over the internet and hard to access for beginners and intermediate players.

What build diversity are you speaking off ? The 4/5 that can blindly do end game boss content because they are broken or the 1 quintillion possible build that are not valid options because they require investment in time and currency that you don't have to be valid (aka weeks of farming)?

When you NEED to craft / trade your gear toi do end game content, the reward can't only be the journey. My ultimate reward in Elden Ring is beating a boss, but to do that the game gives me the currency to upgrade my power. Where PoE gives you the tools to get a guaranteed upgrade ? NEVER !!

Yes PoE already exist for that long and was a niche that was financially en the edge of bankruptcy until 2016. Since then, that has shiffted to milking players every 3 month to sustain dev. What would happen if those player flow went suddenly dry ? I don't see it doing another decade with this...

"

Azarhiel wrote:

"

Antigegner wrote:

"

Azarhiel wrote:

He has valid points in his posts.

I don't think so, but hey, all the power to you guys for having your opinion.

No games should be treated as work becausee they are games !! A way of getting youself out of this fucking world for a couple of hours and have fun...
I don't think this world is a "fucking world". whether or not a game feels like work to somebody is subject to his/her individual perception. If the game feels that way to a person and if that person doesn't like that, then the person should not play it. I don't play games I don't like. I don't play games where the things I don't like outweigh the things I like.

The problemm is :

PoE is not fun anymore and have not been since 3.6.
I'm really sorry for you, I truly am. I'm having fun, although I think there is still a lot to criticize!

The power that has been drawn out of practically every build is not good.
I can only (again) say that build diversity (even if we say u r right and it is limited) is still bigger than any other arpg is or ever was.

GGG is shifting powers every 3 months because they don't have any clue on how to balance the game as a whole (whom had thought that power level 83 mobs in a level 69 heist was a good thing ?)
I think they are not the greatest at balancing but it's not too bad either, except for melee (that is awful currently). Since I have considered looking at life with the stance of: "der weg ist das ziel" (the journey is the reward) I have started to enjoy life more and games that change a lot, too.

Frustrating players and destroying their builds is not a sustainable way of doing things !!
To be precise: 10 years of going "a not sustainable way"....successfully ;p.

I still think the biggest problem is lack of QoL. Too much info is spread all over the internet and hard to access for beginners and intermediate players.

What build diversity are you speaking off ? The 4/5 that can blindly do end game boss content because they are broken or the 1 quintillion possible build that are not valid options because they require investment in time and currency that you don't have to be valid (aka weeks of farming)?

When you NEED to craft / trade your gear toi do end game content, the reward can't only be the journey. My ultimate reward in Elden Ring is beating a boss, but to do that the game gives me the currency to upgrade my power. Where PoE gives you the tools to get a guaranteed upgrade ? NEVER !!

Yes PoE already exist for that long and was a niche that was financially en the edge of bankruptcy until 2016. Since then, that has shiffted to milking players every 3 month to sustain dev. What would happen if those player flow went suddenly dry ? I don't see it doing another decade with this...

so play elden ring, why play poe?

It is very very rare to find a poster supporting current balance or versatility who isn't playing a commonly known to be very strong build.

I Don't bring this up to shit on you guys just highlighting that perspectives change, especially if you try a broad spectrum of skills across archetypes.

If you are playing something thats known to be strong the game feels real good right now, if you are trying to succeed with worse setups however It can feel pretty bad, plenty of skills that were substantially nerfed by 3.15 have had no power replaced since.

I understand OP's complaint, some of it is git gud, some of it is about having a proper plan for how to do content but also some of its just right that we lost a decent amount of freedom and they haven't replaced that much.

It should never take 80hrs a week though thats just trying to break a wall by running into it with your face, take a different approach.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

It is very very rare to find a poster supporting current balance or versatility who isn't playing a commonly known to be very strong build.

Not sure if I can agree here.

To me its important to distinguish between 2 very different metas.
First one being the current league meta, which does change a lot.
Second one being the overarching PoE meta, which doesnt change all that much. Not even the dreaded 3.15 patch changed a whole lot when it comes to the general PoE meta and balance patches dont change anything at all.

So as long as you are playing a build thats checking all the boxes of the PoE meta then the current league meta barely matters. You will still be able to beat all content with relative ease and there a far more than just the current league meta build capable of achieving just that.
Current league meta builds are merely reflecting whats popular at the time, not necessarily whats good.


However, the moment you are trying to go against the overarching PoE meta, you are in trouble and will take significantly more time/currency to make it work.
Understanding the PoE meta is key and following this is mandatory, if you want an easy time.
But again, there are far far more viable builds than the often mentioned 3-5 current league meta builds. The only difference is that you have to pay the meta-tax, if you are following the current league meta builds because supply & demand will increase the prices substantially.
Which again can be avoided if you dont play those builds and instead settle for builds that still check the boxes of the overarching PoE meta.


I think this why you do get so many different responses when it comes to this specific topic. If you do understand and follow the PoE meta, its easy and smooth sailing. If you dont, you just shot yourself in the foot multiple times and you might not even know it.

Overarching POE meta is limiting. Few things work here and there and then there is like 90% that can be considered a noob trap and will make you feel bad eventually.

In my opinion nothing should be a noob trap. Some things must be towering into the sky and far above the clouds in terms of power. But the rest must be at least high enough - viable.

And please dont tell me the story of everything is viable, heard that one before. 90% of game is not viable if you consider that you are on a timer that is running out. Bet it end of league if playing league or next nerf pass that breaks your build if its about standard.

The diversity and possibilities are currently a lie.

Agreed with op, I have 1 glacial hammer berserker, 1 two handed lightning strike character , 1 heavy strike berserker and 1 ice crash inquisitor, and Ive only managed to squeeze 600 or 550 thousand dps by level 90 on each. I like to be creative and follow my own builds but the most I can get to without dying 5 times in a map is t14 blue rolled maps safely...Even with some watchers eye my build will only do 50k more damage. Splash from glacial hammer got deleted, monster speed, hp and damage really shit on all my builds and with a 900 pdps weapon the tops I will see is 1.5 mill which is still not gona chunk any bosses like before. You cant stun or freeze consistenly with those damage numbers either and even if you have some mobs locked down theres one rare casting 25 spells / second.

All these other players saying its your problem dont know what its like to play your own build.

"

Bosscannon wrote:

Overarching POE meta is limiting. Few things work here and there and then there is like 90% that can be considered a noob trap and will make you feel bad eventually.

In my opinion nothing should be a noob trap. Some things must be towering into the sky and far above the clouds in terms of power. But the rest must be at least high enough - viable.

Depends on what the goal is.

I guess you want pretty much everything viable to do all content.
I dont think thats what GGG wants. In fact Im pretty sure they dont want it and I can see why.

The amount of work/time needed to make that happen would be insane, given the 3 months release schedule. Its just not doable.


I think GGG does focus on the campaign. Everything has to be viable in this very specific context. After that, its the wild west and free for all.
If it works, fine. If it doesnt work, also fine.

In terms of endgame they simply use the "lawnmower" method to balance things.
If a build is too powerful, they´ll take it down a peg or two and leave it at that but they dont care about builds not perfomring at toptier level all that much because its not doable. There are way too many moving parts to consider.


Its your job as a player to find a build or rather playstyle suiting your needs and make it work within the overarching PoE meta. It really isnt that hard, if you do understand that meta but at the same time its borderline impossible if you dont understand or ignore this.