Convince me Stash tab "MTX" is not pay to win

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Sintactical wrote:

Even if it were pay to win (which I don't personally believe, because my definition of that is different), so what? What's the point of this thread?

So that we can trash talk, criticize the game and annoy people on this forum. Like every other P2W games forum out there.

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allionus wrote:

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brunowa wrote:

POE is not a game to be "WON", so you can't really Pay to Win.

Who are you competing against? Getting an advantage over? This game is a self-paced game. Do you get some amazing prize for killing Maven first every league? No.

The other argument you might make is that you NEED to pay $$ to be able to complete the game or do all content (which is the REAL meaning of Pay to Win). Which is absolutely NOT the case with POE, as many people have clearly demonstrated that all content can be cleared quite comfortably with the standard 4 tabs.

Unless you're one of the 0.001% who go in races, then this concept of pay to win is defunct.

Scarecrow fallacy.

You intentionally restrict "p2w" to the LITERAL term when every word is taken LITERALLY, and make up your whole defense based around a misunderstood version of the argument, then beat the absolute living excrement out of it for some catharsis.

Rather than seeing it as a term that is sufficient in being usable to show a LACK or PRESENCE of "Real money priced gains" beyond superficial vanity/appearance items.

If you don't understand that TIME SAVED = VALUE GAINED in the game's economy, you need to do things I won't do for you, like understand what the game is and how it works, etc.

You seem at the point of omni rationalization where you'd even defend "selling movement speed boosting modifiers"- Because they do the Identical thing in a different way - SAVE YOU TIME = GIVE YOU MORE VALUE And if you're against that, you're a hypocrite in this regard. Straight up honests.

lol, wot?

Based on your argument, every single game in the universe is Pay to Win. Whoever buys the most expensive computer with the best graphics in the world and the fastest load times has an advantage and will "win".

Trully P2W games operate with notion that you keep getting better the more monety you put into it. They force you to keep paying. Even if you can bypass that need with playing more but it requires months of grind its still P2W.

You cant call every single game out there P2W just because you dont want to put any money into it. Thats just stupid. PoE is not P2W simply because singular 30$ payment gives you everything you will ever need.

I actually think having more tabs is a massive disadvantage. I have many tabs and I lose more time picking useless trash items and sorting them out. If I had less everything would had been ok. I would had picked cool items and exalted orbs only.

Buying more tabs is pay to lose.

Change my mind!

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brunowa wrote:

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allionus wrote:

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brunowa wrote:

POE is not a game to be "WON", so you can't really Pay to Win.

Who are you competing against? Getting an advantage over? This game is a self-paced game. Do you get some amazing prize for killing Maven first every league? No.

The other argument you might make is that you NEED to pay $$ to be able to complete the game or do all content (which is the REAL meaning of Pay to Win). Which is absolutely NOT the case with POE, as many people have clearly demonstrated that all content can be cleared quite comfortably with the standard 4 tabs.

Unless you're one of the 0.001% who go in races, then this concept of pay to win is defunct.

Scarecrow fallacy.

You intentionally restrict "p2w" to the LITERAL term when every word is taken LITERALLY, and make up your whole defense based around a misunderstood version of the argument, then beat the absolute living excrement out of it for some catharsis.

Rather than seeing it as a term that is sufficient in being usable to show a LACK or PRESENCE of "Real money priced gains" beyond superficial vanity/appearance items.

If you don't understand that TIME SAVED = VALUE GAINED in the game's economy, you need to do things I won't do for you, like understand what the game is and how it works, etc.

You seem at the point of omni rationalization where you'd even defend "selling movement speed boosting modifiers"- Because they do the Identical thing in a different way - SAVE YOU TIME = GIVE YOU MORE VALUE And if you're against that, you're a hypocrite in this regard. Straight up honests.

lol, wot?

Based on your argument, every single game in the universe is Pay to Win. Whoever buys the most expensive computer with the best graphics in the world and the fastest load times has an advantage and will "win".

False equivalency - You Making stuff and equating them- which is insanely wrong- Your whole intent is to defend ggg, regardless of your choice of defense or lack of coherence.


a "Better computer" is NOT an IN-GAME purchasable ADVANTAGE. That's like saying sitting on a better chair is P2W, eating healthier foods is P2W. spending money on your physical fitness is P2W.

You are being ridiculous.



I just hope this terrible logic of yours is limited to your interaction on this forum :'(

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rusclaudiualin wrote:

I actually think having more tabs is a massive disadvantage. I have many tabs and I lose more time picking useless trash items and sorting them out. If I had less everything would had been ok. I would had picked cool items and exalted orbs only.

Buying more tabs is pay to lose.

Change my mind!

Sure, beyond a point of manageability, you can argue that "too many paid for stash tabs are a disadvantage.

But that's not an issue with the storage product itself, instead an issue rising from the buyer's personal capacity/limits to efficiently manage them without suffering detriment to gains.

Also the argument about picking less items isn't good - for example - I've only found about 6-8 ex in value currency drops, but over 40ex in "random" rares drops. This is a "play like me" argument, which works less and less with the more people you add. Not everyone with 1000 stash tabs will try to fill them all, they might just use 20. Not every stash one buys *must* be used. People have different approaches in this.


But i'm not talking about 'what the game is for me', but more 'what the game is, regardless of what people like to believe and see it as'

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kuciol wrote:

Trully P2W games operate with notion that you keep getting better the more monety you put into it. They force you to keep paying. Even if you can bypass that need with playing more but it requires months of grind its still P2W.

You cant call every single game out there P2W just because you dont want to put any money into it. Thats just stupid. PoE is not P2W simply because singular 30$ payment gives you everything you will ever need.

"Truly p2w", this is a "no true scotsman" fallacy. It's an either/or thing. One exists, the other doesn't. Both can't exist in the game system.

What you're describing, is just a more extreme version of what ggg does. Sure then they're not the same, but just because they're different from each other, doesn't mean only 1 of them remains in the P2W category.

I'm not calling every game out there P2W. Just try think how many games "every game" includes.

The 30$ statement, you can't speak for everyone. This point would have been valid if they automatically added stash tabs for new currency to that one time payment. But that's not how it is, is it now?

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awesome999 wrote:

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Sintactical wrote:

Even if it were pay to win (which I don't personally believe, because my definition of that is different), so what? What's the point of this thread?

So that we can trash talk, criticize the game and annoy people on this forum. Like every other P2W games forum out there.

Cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drung yeee boaiiiiii!!!!

People haven't even managed to defend stash tabs, and nobody's even brought up the trade system and its design to keep players logged in to trade kekincidence.

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vio wrote:

i have over 200 premium tabs with 20 of them being quads and all special tabs ... and nobody ever saw me winning.

one guy selling a headhunter over a forum post entry makes more currency than me with 5 quads for selling stuff.

almost 300, then you can name them all with the names of spartan warriors hehe.

But that's not what i'm saying, it's not about "winning" the game. Purely about the time/speed advantage premium purchases provide.

You or I, or anyone can use 0% of the advantage gaining power it gives, but regardless, that is what is sold.

If i buy a hypothetical item, which kills any boss from anywhere on the map - BUT i just don't use it. Does that make the item not p2w? Nah. Just your application of it.

Nine pages? Pretty clear that this subject is at least objectively debatable, and isn't as black and white os the picture OP is painting. But anyhow, in 2022 - when F2P games are flooding the market and P2W games are everywhere, the important thing is HOW the game is attacking your credit card.