Convince me Stash tab "MTX" is not pay to win
" I don't tolerate it much as you do, you seem friendly and protective almost. Like a strong green color health bar over poe, but over me, you see a red color health bar. I shank them in the wallet and don't pay what they designed the game to make me pay, along with completely vanishing for months depriving them of thousands of more hours and more spend-potential time they'd get from me. The -possibly- worst thing I do in response, is recommend everyone who asks me about it, Against playing PoE, by being honest what they'll make you experience just to grease your wallet.. or purse or satchel etc. I'd love an honest tagline with the game's title, which goes like- "Yeah it's heckin free af bros, come hop in!! But just one lil thingie- if you don't pay, you cant list items to sell ingame (heck' to make the game more challenging, you won't even be able to name your stashes so enjoy remembering where you kept what), and if you're not online (or worse, online in a low activity timezone) you can't even sell the items, enjoy burning hundreds of hours over months from all the stack sorting you'll be doing without those neat stashes we made *just for u, not for us*. Last edited by allionus#2044 on Mar 7, 2022, 2:08:05 PM
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Enough replies from my side for today guys, thanks for contributing! I'll get some work and rest done, then get back to replying to everyone asap.
*update- I FAILEDDDD IN RESTING!! AND GETTING WORK DONE IM STILL HERE AAAAA!!!!!! Last edited by allionus#2044 on Mar 7, 2022, 2:25:39 PM
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" Same goes for any other game charging 60 bucks upfront and promising to be the best game ever - only it isnt and you wont play for much longer than a single weekend. I like GGGs approach far better. To me its essentially a free demo, lasting for as long as you want and if you wanted to play the game more seriously, you shouldnt have any issue to drop 60 bucks. The difference is you know in this scenario what you are paying for, whereas other games just try to persuade you with shiny promo-vids and empty promises. |
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" I'm cool with it being that for you, no issue. But that's not what PoE is hoisted up as. I've been here long enough to know that. After a few years of the only only thing in the game to not change being the trade system. It started sticking out. Maybe after the 4th year lol. Took me a while. Also, most every game, even a 3A title with N amount of dlc etc, is refundable to a certain time. I don't think ggg has that option with the stash/coin buys. Also, it's an entire game. Not a mere "thorn removal at price.. a thorn which the remover.. placed. damn that's heckin meta" |
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" That is also there, but for many people like myself, it almost stops existing in their worlds because they never engage with it, or look up anything relating to it (the only reminders being those global chat spams for those sites lol). But it is rampant. Everything traded in that manner, only happens because it is designed in a way by ggg where it facilitates those behaviors. And *incentivizes* that behavior by making the same openly tradable, un-logged items rare (i don't have an issue with rarity in case someone else here misunderstands). And so far in my time here, I've not seen any decent response by the gods of this game. It's almost a pure benefit for them if it even gets 1 more player to spend money on the game- "No matter what they are doing in the game" wink wink. |
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Eh, cheers for the reply, Exile. Curiously I had a very similar 'argument' with a fellow Ex-Exile regading Gran Turismo 7's little flirtation with pay to win by selling currency which you can otherwise grind out in-game, with my friend declaring it absolutely pay to win (as you would, I suspect) and me going, well, fuck, nature of the business right now and aren't we all just thankful it's not NFTs? Like or not, pay for convenience will not be seen as pay to win to such a degree as to stop it being widespread.
I think the genie is out of the bottle and we're never going back to the days of most major games having zero mtxes -- Elden Ring may be a blip at this point -- because while plenty of games are still made for passion and to test the tension between entertainment and art, there's just too much money in 'the game' for it not to be first and foremost about generating as much wealth as possible from players. In that light, I gave up truly fighting it. I won't not play a game because it's both buy to play and laced with mtxes, because it's a case by case situation. That and I play almost exclusively PvE, where buying power is to me less a case of flexing your CC to beat others and, well, sort of ruining the game for yourself. That's on you for 'buying into' the fake impetus. Anyway I'm glad to see you didn't just drop a bomb and watch the locals choke on the fumes, but there's no real argument here. I just wanted to provide some nuance as to why it's not really about whether or not stash tabs are pay to win -- it's about whether or not GGG can convince people that when they buy them, and they will buy them, they are not cheating or 'getting an unfair advantage'. They're just showing their support and getting a smoother play experience as a totally unrelated perk. ^_~ Out for reals. PS 'pay to win' never takes into account anything that isn't sanctioned by the developers. Officially. That'd be like saying 'this game is easy because I let my friend finish it for me'. Anyone making the argument that a game is pay to win because illegal parties sell assets in it is 100% wrong. If they're not, pretty much every game to ever have an online component strong enough to warrant gold selling is inherently 'pay to win'. Nope. No way. Sorrynotsorry. If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Mar 7, 2022, 2:28:26 PM
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" That can become a redeeming point... if we don't assume that how they release and price their Non-P2W MTX is perfect with no room for improvement. But from my perspective, there's a whole ballroom for improvement, maybe a whole pasture. I'm honestly not a person who's stingy on spending money on games,- but this is a *Business transaction* (a transaction on their end with non-material, infinitely Copy+Pasteable "products", and real material, tangible wealth on my end) And I despise being ripped off or being played like a blind fiddle. No Fair play, no pay. |
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" he was proving that you could win the game in the hardest possible game mode in a couple of days without paying anything while virtually no one who has actually paid money to the game is capable of doing that regardless of how much they have paid even after playing for 9 years. its puts how much pay vs how much win you get in perspective. your money doesnt really buy you winning the game, you cant pay and then be rewarded with winning, and you dont have to pay in order to win. it can save you time, but even given 10,000 hours and $1000 spent most people havent won the game even in soft trade easy mode. but a great player who spends nothing can do it from scratch in the hardest game mode in about 30 hours played. trading isnt winning the game, he won the game in a couple of days without trading. most people who trade never win the game same way most people who pay money never win the game. youve literally said a game like diablo 3 where you buy the game and then buy an expansion is worse than poe. thats just a normal model for selling a computer game that has always existed. diablo 2 had a box price and then an expansion just like diablo 3. did you get this capslocky and pink text foamy mouthed about diablo 2 back in the day? youre entitled to be as angry as you want about poe essentially having a $30 price tag if you want all the qol features. i dont think anyone really cares to convince you otherwise, were just pointing out why we dont agree and youre not convicting us either. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Yeah bud, it's not going away anytime soon, especially when smaller devs get gulped by bigger gaming-world-detached owners. But they didn't exist once, and they won't exist soon; like all temporary things. There will inevitably emerge games which ultimately, after everything is matched, *only have competition left to win in the space of what they charge for and what they do to get players to pay* if you see what I mean by this. And if PoE is around when such a game does emerge, it will shred through this thing like Drox's fist shred my rear the other day a couple times. This is a deterministic prophecy, the only thing I can't say (because I can't know), is when it happens. Also, i got an exalt drop today (not touching my nest eggs) so im ready to re-invest that bad boy back into my local, 'eccentric merchandise' business. Also, funny- I'd show them more support if they didn't throw pebbles and glasses on my "experience path" and charge for removal after doing so- I'd definitely spend several times more as a token of my gratitude, now they get my denial. All the best out there buddo, take it ezbreezy Last edited by allionus#2044 on Mar 7, 2022, 2:45:39 PM
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" Again this thing. Firstly, Diablo is worse because of the market manipulation that is *left unchecked*, it emerges from negligence, not the overall design, but let's not talk about ggg's market manipulation loopholes, and other 'bad actor incentives'. 2- I'm not angry, you can see I respond to everyone accordingly, if it comes off as angry,- it has two likely reasons - Me appearing 'angered' is a good attack vector, or i legit appear angry from some posts to you. That can happen, we're imperfect beings with imperfect cognition and we all see each other differently depending on what our brain is going thru right now, and what it was born as, and what happened to it throughout its existence. 3- P2W by that argument of 'it's not about what you buy, but how you use it with your efforts, even if less is needed' can be denied to exist in ANY game - simply say "this game is not p2w because- Even if you buy 100,000,000 of any ingame's "pay to win" thing, or any combination of the things, in ANY game- but then you just sit idle in town or your 'hideout', it's no use to you, there's no winning by just buying. You actually have to put in effort." So it's no p2w. 4- "he won the game in a couple of days without trading" - Yeah, because it's ssf.. where are we going with this? Besides that, I never argued about "winning" the game. The words are freely accessible on screen. You can go through them again several times. |
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