Convince me Stash tab "MTX" is not pay to win

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kuciol wrote:

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allionus wrote:

"Truly p2w", this is a "no true scotsman" fallacy. It's an either/or thing. One exists, the other doesn't. Both can't exist in the game system.

What you're describing, is just a more extreme version of what ggg does. Sure then they're not the same, but just because they're different from each other, doesn't mean only 1 of them remains in the P2W category.

I'm not calling every game out there P2W. Just try think how many games "every game" includes.

The 30$ statement, you can't speak for everyone. This point would have been valid if they automatically added stash tabs for new currency to that one time payment. But that's not how it is, is it now?

And they do just that. You also can use generic tabs for that stuff. 30$ gets you 2 normal tabs, 1premium, 1 currency 1 map. You wont ever need anything beyond that.

Going by your stupid logic every gamę is p2w. Witcher 3 is p2w since you have to buy it. FF14 is p2w since its pay to play etc. Requiring a payment does not and never will make a game p2w.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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allionus wrote:

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brunowa wrote:

wtf, did Foreverhappychan literally write a 1,710 word essay on this subject?

hehe

I'm not familiar with that person, or post unfortunately.

Uh, yes you are.

^_^

Anyway you're holding your own here which is impressive in and of itself. Happy (*snigger*) to watch this slow, grinding train stubbornly refuse to wreck itself.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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allionus wrote:

'PoE is a different kind of P2W, it's built different..er so it's not P2W'.

No the problem is your argument is this, you and your friends are playing grand turismo but you've decided that how good your car looks is the purpose of the game so its become p2w because you can buy skins. (I have no idea if you can buy skins in GT)

Its a racing game, the point is to race.

Stash tabs don't facilitate you doing shit in PoE, they won't teach you how to play, what skill is good, how to kill the bosses, what drops to pickup, how to succeed when not a meta cuck.

What they do is help you make currency, except most players that use stash tabs to make currency are so shit at it they actually lose currency vs just playing the game.

Imagine arguing that bank tabs in WoW were p2w they aren't even close, the fact you can buy a gear carry off a top raiding guild absolutely is.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Heh, totally ignored by the OP. Gosh I wonder why.

I'm outs. Casting pearls before swine is probably the only character flaw of which I'm proud, but truly it IS a character flaw.

Thanks again for engaging, jewdas12. My day is a little brighter for your positive (albeit minor) shift in my perspective on GGG's chosen financial model.

GGG cured me of supporting F2P not by being overtly pay to win bastards, but by being ALMOST ethically perfect in their F2P approach and then slowly eroding to merely 'still fair compared to the others' -- unfair of me, I know, but I'm someone who strives to be good and still cops hell whenever I even slightly transgress while accepted recidivists get away with all sorts of shit 'because they're just that way'. I know how this works, and if GGG are going to break bad per se, they should probably do it a little more honestly.

It's not as if we have any illusions that the owners of GGG are ethical paragons, is it? Hm.

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esostaks wrote:

It kinda is because it's very inconvenient to play without tabs, but I don't mind it because it is on the ethical side of microtransactions compared to the predatory practices that other 'f2p' games use milking hundreds and thousands out of you.

I've been playing for 4 years, and spent around ~50 dollars on tabs, and I don't even use all the additional premium and basic tabs I've bought.

It's also hard to take criticism about tabs seriously when you see that they are adding such features like affinities and are improving the old tabs when they could have easily make us buy new tabs and milk us more. For example, they could have released a 'Boss killer tab', but instead they expanded Fragments tab to be able to store Maven and Sirus fragments.

If it would be EA or some Korean MMORPG they would make you re-buy those tabs every month or invent other greedy ways to milk more money out of you.

Also everyone knows that 99,9% of the loot in PoE is useless trash not worth picking up, and if you want to be efficient and 'win' you have to pick up only the valuable stuff. So technically after a certain point when you have enough tabs to store all your valuables next tabs you buy can reduce your efficiency and actually make you 'lose' making the game p2lose :D

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allionus wrote:

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kuciol wrote:

"You wont ever need anything beyond that" -speak for yourself. Also you literally accepted PoE is P2W LMAO "You won't ever NEED anything beyond THAT". So you are actually just saying in a fancier way "PoE is P2W according to I Kuciol, BUT ONLY TILL the 30$ pack purchase- After that, NO More p2w!!"

People who feel internal urge to use a "herd claim" like "we don't need this crap", or "We believe x" just to add fake weight to your argument, really don't see the holes. Because the holes are bigger than their vision field.

I literally said that singular payment doesnt make a game p2w. P2W is only when the more you pay the stronger you get. When you have a clear constant correlation money=power you can talk about p2w. In every other case its just a price of the game.

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kuciol wrote:

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allionus wrote:

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kuciol wrote:

"You wont ever need anything beyond that" -speak for yourself. Also you literally accepted PoE is P2W LMAO "You won't ever NEED anything beyond THAT". So you are actually just saying in a fancier way "PoE is P2W according to I Kuciol, BUT ONLY TILL the 30$ pack purchase- After that, NO More p2w!!"

People who feel internal urge to use a "herd claim" like "we don't need this crap", or "We believe x" just to add fake weight to your argument, really don't see the holes. Because the holes are bigger than their vision field.

I literally said that singular payment doesnt make a game p2w. P2W is only when the more you pay the stronger you get. When you have a clear constant correlation money=power you can talk about p2w. In every other case its just a price of the game.

NO. You are not in a convo with your bros where this way of arguing is valid and works like magic lmao.

You intentionally keep re-defining and reducing a term EXACTLY to the range where your argument is capable of holding ground. FUNNY COINCIDENCE.

Ya sure "p2w is ONLY when you can pay constantly to keep getting stronger"!!!! It's not P2w if there's a LIMITED amount of advantage you can get over players. Like a "ONE TIME item purchase" which will 1-hit kill 50000 bosses for you, is NOT P2W!! It only becomes p2w if you can keep buying more and more of that item!!! But ONE is not P2W.. Checked and mated logic itself :OOOOOO

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Uh, yes you are.

^_^

I'm also a former uber-whale who has created a few items for the game. And a monster. And still hold the record for most posts made here with any modicum of quality, although the merciful incineration of my 'main' account makes that a bit harder to prove.

Some called me Ruler of Wraeclast; most didn't dare call me an egotistical bastard. The truth is there's no difference.