Dear GGG, please lower the overall difficulty of the game

A major problem is the ridiculous amount of minutiae that a new (or returning) player needs to know just to reach basic functionality. I am used to seeing the argument that the "real game" starts post-Act 10 in the Atlas. For veteran players, this is likely true.

I have been playing for four years now, so I know that I need a main skill, travel skill, various defensive skills, and I need to allocate the proper supports for those skills. Navigating the skill tree is essential to the point of having to preview where I need to advance well ahead of time. Gearing up is its own issue, and if you're playing SSF* you need to both know what to get and where it will drop.

When I have played other ARPGs** I can mix and match skills, gear, and stats well enough to advance (slowly) while learning what is and isn't working the way I expect it to. When I see a POE character with a bunch of unsupported skills, it's likely because they don't know they have to focus on one or two skills. People might be hesitant to reserve their entire mana orb because that's not done in other games they play. Every skill should be useful in POE by the majority of players, and their use should be either self-evident or else labeled/categorized as to their purpose by the game.

Then there's the death penalty at high levels. Yeah, it's been talked to death (lol), but there's nothing quite like hitting a brick wall and not knowing why it happened. "Was it a fluke? Will I lose even more XP if I try again? I don't have any more copies of this particular map, so I might lose out..." Few other games require the level of split-second timing to avoid a bad outcome amidst the sheer volume of visual stimuli.

So yeah, people get salty when something they're doing for fun turns out to feel like another job. And since I (and others, it seems) like POE for its approach to the ARPG genre, I want to see a toned-down level of frustration for when I only have an hour or two to play. I have nothing against people who want crushing difficulty; game modes should exist to allow for that as well.


* Yes, I get that SSF is supposed to be a challenge mode. But honestly, it's either ridiculous RNG or navigating the morass that is the trading system. Both are a pain and require dedicated farming strategies.

** Diablo II, Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch primarily

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RedHenrik wrote:

A major problem is the ridiculous amount of minutiae that a new (or returning) player needs to know just to reach basic functionality. I am used to seeing the argument that the "real game" starts post-Act 10 in the Atlas. For veteran players, this is likely true.

I have been playing for four years now, so I know that I need a main skill, travel skill, various defensive skills, and I need to allocate the proper supports for those skills. Navigating the skill tree is essential to the point of having to preview where I need to advance well ahead of time. Gearing up is its own issue, and if you're playing SSF* you need to both know what to get and where it will drop.

When I have played other ARPGs** I can mix and match skills, gear, and stats well enough to advance (slowly) while learning what is and isn't working the way I expect it to. When I see a POE character with a bunch of unsupported skills, it's likely because they don't know they have to focus on one or two skills. People might be hesitant to reserve their entire mana orb because that's not done in other games they play. Every skill should be useful in POE by the majority of players, and their use should be either self-evident or else labeled/categorized as to their purpose by the game.

It kinda makes me feel like PoE just wants every build/character to basically be an OP Paladin. You need crazy damage, high survivability and nice movement skills. Maybe my 200-300 hours isn't enough but my impression is that every character is pretty much the same at end game. Not really seeing the RPG elements there. It's like you are just picking your character model and voice actor.

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Gotmilk wrote:

It kinda makes me feel like PoE just wants every build/character to basically be an OP Paladin. You need crazy damage, high survivability and nice movement skills. Maybe my 200-300 hours isn't enough but my impression is that every character is pretty much the same at end game. Not really seeing the RPG elements there. It's like you are just picking your character model and voice actor.

what do you mean every character is the same?


if every character needs crazy damage then its not crazy damage, its average damage. if every character needs high survivability its not high survivability, its average.

in what way are you not just essentially saying you need to do damage and be able to survive, which is surely the most basic 2 requirements of building a character in any arpg?

Yet another selfish thread.

People complain that they dont have time to play the game or cant be bothered to learn about new builds or basic mechanics so their suggestion is to make game easier for everybody...

I am playing lacerate bleed glad, that is played by around 1% people according to poeninja and I can easily do all endgame (except for 30 simulacrum to be honest) and there is plenty of other non meta builds that can do the same.

Maybe if you dont want to invest time in the game, play standart before you learn basic nechanics and than start with challenge leagues or find another game. Dont ruin the game for other players who enjoy it.

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Mern wrote:

People complain that they dont have time to play the game or cant be bothered to learn about new builds or basic mechanics so their suggestion is to make game easier for everybody...

A difficulty slider of sorts, an "easy mode" league, or (voided) easier private leagues / leagues with past league modifiers like Harvest would be enough and would not change the rest of the game. Standard could be the "easy league" too.

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Mern wrote:

Maybe if you dont want to invest time in the game, play standart before you learn basic nechanics and than start with challenge leagues or find another game.

Have you tried Standard? The meta is reset every three months, destroying your builds. The map tab didn't work for, like, what, two months? Not even sure it works now. Standard is dumpster tier according to GGG, and they show it. It is honestly pretty disheartening to play.

Also, I personally like a lot of the things in PoE, but it has become a bit too much of a clusterfuck to actually enjoy it in its current state.

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Mern wrote:

Dont ruin the game for other players who enjoy it.

Not the goal. In parallel would be ideal, as everyone enjoys different aspects of this game.

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Char1983 wrote:

Not the goal. In parallel would be ideal, as everyone enjoys different aspects of this game.

Whether thats the explicit goal or not isnt relevant tho.

Your suggestion would result in a game mode which is balanced around the lowest common denominator whereas currently the game is balanced around the polar opposite.

You are asking for an entirely different game as a consequence and cant even see it. To oversimplify it: You cant mix fire and water. One of the two will perish. There is no coexistence or parallel worlds.

Hence people boil down the answer to this request more often than not to:
Git gud or find a game catering to your needs.

Thats pretty much all there is to it.

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Orbaal wrote:

Your suggestion would result in a game mode which is balanced around the lowest common denominator whereas currently the game is balanced around the polar opposite.

I hardly believe that "reduce enemy damage by 10-20%" or "make ground effects do less damage and be more visible" would balance around the LCD, especially when it wouldn't impact normal difficulty at all. I mean, the argument could be made that making new difficulties would splinter the trade market further, but wouldn't most of the people on the lower difficulty level be people who aren't playing the game now?

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You are asking for an entirely different game as a consequence and cant even see it. To oversimplify it: You cant mix fire and water. One of the two will perish. There is no coexistence or parallel worlds.

Fire and water do exist in parallel though? They even frequently interact to do some interesting things. But I digress.

I am asking for a version of the game similar to the pre-3.15 skill/support nerfs and the repeated increases to enemy HP. When I started playing POE, I was able to get fairly well into the Atlas without needing 6 linked socket gear and full skill tree optimization. I am a much better player than I was four years ago, but my progress stalls.

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Hence people boil down the answer to this request more often than not to:
Git gud or find a game catering to your needs.

Thats pretty much all there is to it.

"Git gud" is a lazy response and is predicated on a misunderstanding of what more casual players want. We tend to want the chance to actually experiment with new skills and builds without having to consult multiple guides or spend more time planning than playing. Currently, we can't do this, it's frustrating, and other aspects of the game are sufficiently engaging to keep us interested. Otherwise we would have bolted by now.

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Orbaal wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

Not the goal. In parallel would be ideal, as everyone enjoys different aspects of this game.

Whether thats the explicit goal or not isnt relevant tho.

Your suggestion would result in a game mode which is balanced around the lowest common denominator whereas currently the game is balanced around the polar opposite.

You are asking for an entirely different game as a consequence and cant even see it. To oversimplify it: You cant mix fire and water. One of the two will perish. There is no coexistence or parallel worlds.

What are you afraid of? That an easier game mode might be more fun? How would a game mode that you don't play impact you? How would the impact be different from when the people that don't enjoy the status quo go play Last Epoch instead?

Besides, no, I am not asking for some hypothetical polar opposite. Neither is the TO, I presume. It would be helpful for the discussion if you would hyperbole a bit less.

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RedHenrik wrote:

I hardly believe that "reduce enemy damage by 10-20%" or "make ground effects do less damage and be more visible" would balance around the LCD, especially when it wouldn't impact normal difficulty at all. I mean, the argument could be made that making new difficulties would splinter the trade market further, but wouldn't most of the people on the lower difficulty level be people who aren't playing the game now?

Im not doubting that "reducing stuff by x%" would do it for you, I do doubt however that would be the end of the complaints.
What you would achieve is giving other players an incentive to ask for even more and then some more and still wouldnt stop.
Eventually you would reach the LCD almost guaranteed.

Just go though the topics available here right now.
- Make the game easier
- Get rid of XP penalty
- Reinstate Harvest
- Move Voidstones from Maven & Uber Elder to easier bosses
- Revert support gem nerfs

And so on. How does this not end up being the LCD, if GGG was to follow all of this and whatever follows next?

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RedHenrik wrote:

I am asking for a version of the game similar to the pre-3.15 skill/support nerfs and the repeated increases to enemy HP. When I started playing POE, I was able to get fairly well into the Atlas without needing 6 linked socket gear and full skill tree optimization. I am a much better player than I was four years ago, but my progress stalls.

See my comment above.
The game evolves and so should you, which inevitably results in the good old "git gud" argument.

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RedHenrik wrote:

"Git gud" is a lazy response and is predicated on a misunderstanding of what more casual players want. We tend to want the chance to actually experiment with new skills and builds without having to consult multiple guides or spend more time planning than playing. Currently, we can't do this, it's frustrating, and other aspects of the game are sufficiently engaging to keep us interested. Otherwise we would have bolted by now.

While I can see why you would label "git gud" as lazy, please explain to me how "I refuse to git gud, pls change everything so I dont have to" isnt lazy?

My main concern is that GGG is introducing changes and new stuff on a regular basis. Those have to have impact, otherwise those things might as well not exist.
However if those choices do exist and also do have impact, you do have to do some research/homework to figure it out. Again, otherwise those choices might as well not exist.
So whenever the argument is made "I like PoEs character building system and depths but I cant be bothered to do research" Im cringing internally.
It doesnt make sense at all.

If you cant be bothered to do research/homework/investing time then find a game that doesnt require any of this BUT understand that none of those game will ever provide you with an indepth system on a comparable level as PoE does. Its mutually exclusive, hence my fire and water phrase.

Games cant be indepth AND casual friendly. Pick one and accept the consequences. Feel free to disagree but pls provide with a single example of any game which is as indepth as PoE is while being casual friendly at the same time.

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Char1983 wrote:

What are you afraid of? That an easier game mode might be more fun? How would a game mode that you don't play impact you? How would the impact be different from when the people that don't enjoy the status quo go play Last Epoch instead?

Im afraid of an never ending cascade of requests to make the game easier.
It wouldnt stop where you think it stops just because your wants&needs have been met.

People who dont like the game as is and are basically asking for a different game should move on and play a different game.
Thats affecting me less, because it doesnt change what this game is.


Causals arent a monolithic block.
There is no such thing as "pls change the following x things" and all casuals will be happy. All this does is watering the game down and trigger the next cascade of requests for an even easier game.