Something must be done about The Forbidden Trove Discord

They (dev's) refuse to let people store harvest crafts like bestiary so that discord isnt going anywhere..

I must confess the people over there is extremely "questionable" and try to take adventage alot of folks charging crazy amount of currency for easy things..

Reason why I almost never bother with investing points into harvest since 3.14/3.15

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

literally every story like this ive seen about tft on these forums has come with no proof at all.

How is 'proof' the way you are saying possible in this gaming format? You want everyone to record every trade and interaction on video before you believe multiple reports?

What possible reason do people have to say that interactions that went perfectly well did not actually go well? What are they gaining?



Aside from that, why are you, or anyone, possibly arguing for a random third party discord stream to control most endgame crafting in PoE?

What the hell are you arguing for?

Look, you might be tired of people pointing out flaws on the forums, you might want to protect GGG who (I believe) makes a solid product, but can you REALLY say you think TFT is a good thing for this game?

I dont believe you actually think that, I believe you are a reasonable person who is just pushing back on any negative comments, no matter how justified. Maybe pause for a moment, consider if you really think a random discord channel having that level of control, including locking people out of endgame crafting, is really positive for the game, before answering.

Yeah personally I didn't think about whether the OP is telling the truth or not it doesn't actually matter vs the problem, tft could be 100% legit with a perfect record and I'd still think its bad to leave a player group in control of a game system that you the designer don't even want to be traded to begin with.

For the sake of discussion let's agree for a moment that some but not all members of TFT are villains. There are thieves in the room and some of the administration are self-serving. The thing you have to understand is that despite whatever downsides there are, there are also upsides. And you have to also understand that the downsides are the same downsides that would exist if TFT didn't exist and, this is the important bit, the upsides would NOT exist if TFT didn't exist.

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trixxar wrote:

but can you REALLY say you think TFT is a good thing for this game?

Yes, TFT is a good thing for this game. Is it perfect? No, but we're not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

What is this upside? The answer is confidence. What TFT does is provide a measure of confidence that the person you're making an exchange with isn't going to screw you. Is that trust 100%? Of course not but it's more than 0%, which is how much confidence you have anywhere else in the game. And that's the thing, people are willing to accept a degree of risk otherwise we wouldn't be willing to leave the house for fear of getting hit by a car or crashing your car. What TFT does is provide ENOUGH confidence that, judging but its active user-base obviously is satisfactory to a lot of people. If your threshold for safety is higher than the people who use TFT that's fine, but you cannot condemn them for engaging with a system that fulfills their needs when the alternative is 0% safety.

Where else could you get this trust if not for TFT? What if you have no friends in the game. Would you trust someone in Global with your Mirror to Mirror an item? Perhaps you will say you can trust a streamer or YouTuber. What if I'm not a streamer or YouTuber but want to earn the same revenues they do? TFT levels the playing field when it comes to trust, it allows people like you and me to have a modicum of trust that is a simulacrum of the trust you would have from a friend or public figure like a streamer.

TFT offers convenience. TFT has tools that allow us to find what we want, we can make bulk sales and purchases without having to bump a thread OR store our vouches in the same thread. Discord also offers search functions that can pinpoint to what you want compared to the forums and Discord allows us to stream and validate the product without the cumbersome process of making, editing, and posting a screenshot.

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trixxar wrote:

including locking people out of endgame crafting

I think you have made an error here. You will need to explain how TFT inhibits endgame crafting because I think it doesn't. There's nobody slapping the exalts out of your hands before you hit the crafting bench nor is a third party stopping you from using those crafts from the garden. You have better access to the global supply of crafts through TFT than you would without.

This is an aside but TFT doesn't tax you for the vast bulk of its services. Their moderation (which is not perfect either) applies the law, documents justice, maintains every system I've engaged with for free. I have never given anything to the owners of TFT as a fee, tax, bite of any transaction I've made using their Discord. I have gained and profited thanks to their charity and all I've really given back is by being a trustworthy dealer and contributing to the notion that the place is generally safe to operate.

I have been witness to numerous abuses of power, miscarriages of justice, scams, witch-hunts, carpet bannings, harassment, and whatever stories everyone cares to repeat about what happens there. I do not condone that behaviour but I can turn a blind eye in the interests of fat stacks of Exalts.

~

GGG's designs have created these vacuums lacking in trust or convenience. TFT has stepped up to fill those gaps. TFT is not perfect, but it is better than nothing and it offers much more utility than nothing. inb4 the Franklin quote about liberty and security, which isn't even about the relationship between the two terms.

I'll edit this post to add more details or clarity if necessary.

Some TFT opponents would like you to believe that it's some den of vipers, taking advantage of limitations of the game by colluding to scam unsuspecting rubes out of their in-game wealth.

Some TFT proponents would like you to believe that it's a collection of like-minded players who have built a system of accountability that brings with it an inherent level of trustworthiness, filling a gap in game functionality.

I think it Likely neither is true, but rather something in between.

Is TFT inherently trustworthy? Should it inspire "confidence" in players who use it? Only a fool would think so.

It's run by a group of players who have no checks and balances keeping them on the moral straight-and-narrow. There are no laws or rules to follow, except what they make for themselves. There is no oversight. Of course they have some incentive to project at least a semblance of trustworthiness, lest they be shunned and their audience looking for services shrivels. But if you get on some man-child's bad side, there's nothing keeping you from getting conned or banned. Clearly the recurrence of such anecdotes here in the forums and on Reddit aren't harmful enough to deter many others. TFT doesn't care.

But the larger question that this post raises is, should GGG do something about it?

To which I ask, what could they possibly do?

Sure, they could make Harvest crafts tradeable, but it's naive to think that Harvest craft trading is all that happens on TFT. Even if GGG made Harvest crafting tradeable (which they clearly don't want to do for some reason), TFT would still be alive and kicking, providing "services" for many other parts of the game.

But other than making sweeping design changes to their game, GGG has no influence on whether community groups like TFT exist. They'll exist whatever GGG does.

I'm still waiting to hear a meaningful suggestion for what "something must be done" actually means.

What I found out recently and its sad but funny os that this discord "group" have ALL mirror items for sevice sale. U can look urself on league or std u will find the same name have the most valuable itens and legacy on std. I didn't knew who that guy was since recently...

Its naive to think they only do ingame currency trades.... sight. Well if even in real life we have mafia that controls some aspects of our society imagine inside a game so yeah nothing we can do about it.

It's not a den of vipers. It's a watering hole. Watering holes in desert regions attract all sorts of critters that need the water to survive. But they also attract predators.

Neat thing about nature is that it achieves a balance. Too many predators would keep prey animals from thriving. There's a system of differential equations that explain it, and a phase diagram that shows the dynamics of the system.

The real problem is that TFT isn't nature. The system is way too chaotic, and nothing can really be done about that. Prey will ask for the removal of predators. Predators will ask for more prey. The developers of the site play God over all of it. Everyone has fun. It's great.

Me? I'm that life that has adapted to life in the deep desert where no one bothers me. I don't need the water. I don't need to predate. I'm one of those plants that you see every 10 miles or so eeking out existence on whatever rain happens to come.

Excellent comparison!

Now only if PoE wasn't a desert and instead a lush green savannah, it would attract a lot more species than just a few cutthroat animals preying over the weak over meagre resources. And you would be a tall pine enjoying plenty of rain in solitude.

Not TFT's fault people are stupid...

They actually take many actions to avoid things like this...

That Bot spams the channel daily.

Also by a raise of hands, who on this forum ever received the amount they been scammed for back , ever...

And again by a raise of hands, who ever shared any kind of account info to get a refund for anything , not specifically POE ( except banking card number)

ROFL

Welcome to the cut-throaty world of wraeclast Exile!

Play the game SSF or in normal league pseudo group found - problem solved, sanity restored, POE depression cancelled, thank me later, cya!