Something must be done about The Forbidden Trove Discord

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Exxxiled665 wrote:

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spongwo wrote:

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

Just another example of why I no longer contribute financially to GGG.

he says with 0 supporter packs smh

you know you can contribute with stash tabs?

As well as choose not to display the supporter pack icons which is my personal preference as I prefer less clutter on my screen.

The last time I contributed to GGG was just as they changed to Xsolla for their payment partner which caused my bank to cancel my credit card due to fraud risk because of the business reputation of that entity. Never had a problem with Stripe and Chris announced they would be making payment through Stripe an option again in the future. Then he sold the business to Tencent and we never heard another thing about it. Anyway, that's a segue for another day.

Back on topic, organised cabals like TFT are ultimately damaging for games like this. Any time you concentrate power in an elitist group it has unintended (or perhaps intended!) negative outcomes. The greatest concerns is that GGG then balances around the world of mega-crafting which then leaves the more casual player with a sub-par gaming experience.

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trixxar wrote:

So TFT is good because it gives people the opportunity to scam each other, and thats how we can all learn how to be 'big boys'. Ok.

no, being able to trade in game items gives people the opportunity to scam each other.

tft gives people the opportunity to essentially 'talk' to the last 50 people that guy traded with to get an idea of what sort of trader they are, and puts a pressure on that player to trade in good faith because they have a long term reputation to maintain.

that makes it, by far, the most secure vehicle for trade the game has ever had.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

how do you know?

Because he used to be in our guild, where he admitted to (and promoted the use of) RMT, so we kicked him. Now he's been in TFT for a couple of years, and God knows what he's been doing there. Another person who used to be in our guild, a damn nice guy, is also part of TFT now.

So... I'm not saying TFT is "all bad", because they aren't. I'm just saying it's a group, like every other group, with a lot of people (with different standards and morals). That's not the problem here.

ok, sure, i believe you when you tell me that. ive talked about proof and knowing, youre someone i trust and that to me is proof, you know about this guy, you have good reason to believe him and i have good reason to believe you.

of course theres bad eggs, i was in a guild once and there was a guy in that guild who admitted to us that he had rmted. we all laughed at him, in that situation he was actually the poorest guy in the guild which made it a humorous thing to us. i have no doubt there are some individuals who have engaged in rmt in that circle, by that definition your guild has been involved in rmt and so is one ive been in too because we too have had those members.

thats very different to whats kind of been suggested by a lot of people in the community tho which is that all the big guns in that circle, who are essentially all the big crafters in the game right now, are up to their ears in rmt. theres individual cases of people who have done something corrupt among a large sample size and then theres institutional corruption throughout the governing structure, theres a massive leap from one to the other. and im not suggesting youve made that leap btw, but i think a lot of people have.

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Phrazz wrote:

The problem is that they have more or less monopoly on certain types of trades, and they get to decide who gets access and who doesn't - based on A LOT of subjectivity - if they want - with NO policing from that actual rule makers of the game.

It's the principle, not necessarily the practice.

And what principle is that? The fact that a group of players gets to set the rules and police over the game's biggest source of non-commodity trading. And to be 100% clear here; I'm not blaming TFT for this.

sure, i can appreciate that.

i take a more practical view of it rather than purely principled personally. i think if we drill through why ggg dont want an auction house for all trading its understandable, and actually you cant auction house boss carries etc anyway.

so theres direct player to player trading, thats necessary. ggg cannot properly police p2p trading, its impossible. too many players, too many trades and if they make a less than perfect policing system it will naturally get some things wrong, make a few bad calls, and that is REALLY bad for them as a company. the only realistic thing they can do is have the trade window setup require the mouse over and just let people take responsibility for what they put in the window and hit accept on.

so we arrive at the situation we had before tft, and its necessarily that way. its a complete wild west, theres basically are no rules and no police. tft come along and do the best they can do to create a community where there are rules, they are good rules, and its policed by everyone in the community feeding back their experiences and investing their long term reputations on each trade interaction.



i hear what youre saying, but this is where we find ourselves and its as good as it gets. if we look at what happens in first world economies theres so much corruption, our countries literally run on what amounts to less trustworthy systems in practice. what more can we expect or hope for from a games community?

i dont see a better alternative. to me thats not a case of 'oh its terrible but everything else is worse'. no, i think its great its just not perfect in the same way practical reality is never perfect. im fine with a games community developing its own rules and power structures in principal.











the way i look at it is what matters to us as a community day to day? the games 10 years old, thats big chunk of our lives ago, and its gone. im 40, game dropped when i was 30, my 30s are gone. soon ill be 50, ill die some day, we dont get this time back. what actually matters today and tomorrow? what interactions do we want to have, how do we get from A to B and get the things we want done? tft enables us to move forward, 99.9% of the time it works and we get what we wanted out of our day. 10 years from now the principal wont have mattered, what will have mattered is the reality of what actually happened, the friends we made, the things we did.

are we gonna sit around having some moral outrage over the world not being perfect or are we going to accept the world is not perfect, we ourselves are not perfect, but we are here and our lives are passing us by? can we get something done today and have meaningful, enjoyable interactions with each other?

because tft exists less people have bad experiences, more people have good experiences, more people come together and share their passions. that makes tft a significant force for good in our community. there are elements of our community that are overwhelmingly negative, their existence manufactures bad experiences, makes a day where a community member comes into contact with it a worse day for that person. i guess i do have a position of principal, and thats it, to support net positives and criticise net negatives in our community to make what actually happens in all our lives day by day better.

Solution

Don't use it.

That was hard.

I've played since beta never touched it.

Gotta agree about something must be done about TFT.

Also had issues with their moderators. Ran a carry for someone in global chat (not even TFT) where we agreed before hand I'd carry for free, but I get the loot. Ran the feared (Even tho the guy stayed in the entire time and didn't want to wait outside, so made scaling even harder), got a pure breachstone drop, left and went about my day.

A few hours later I get a PM from a moderator on TFT. After some discussing what was going on (where the mod was rude the entire time), he asked for my proof that we agreed I'd get the drops. I told him I could send him my chat logs in a few, but I was eating dinner right now. His response was "Delaying doesn't look good for you, either you have the chat logs or you're lying". Fuck him, he can wait 10 minutes while I finish eating over something this petty when I've been in TFT for over a year and traded thousands of exalts worth of gear back and fourth.

Well, the other guy DID edit his logs, and since I delayed the moderator instantly blamed it on me. Frustrated, I agreed to just give my payment for the successful service back (the breachstone) and be on my way.

Turned on OBS, met up with the mod in game, traded over the breachstone, let him know it's been recorded. Thought this petty shit was over and done with but... About 30 minutes later I get a bot notification saying I've been banned from TFT and blacklisted for "scamming, falsifying evidence, and attempting to blackmail a moderator".

... Ok. So I upload the video to youtube, submit an appeal, no response. Video got views so I know they saw it. Waited 24 hours, repeat. Video got more views. Still no response. Waited 24 hours, repeat... Finally got a response. "You attempted to blackmail a moderator and falsified evidence of your blatant scam, so you will remain blacklisted". Instantly unfriended before I could ask how I attempted to blackmail anyone.

Submitted another appeal immediately so I could ask. "You are now spamming appeals and will remain permanently blacklisted. Any last words before I unfriend you as well?" I asked how I tried to blackmail anyone. No response, just unfriended.

... So now I'm down my payment for the service, maybe given back to the scammer, maybe kept by the mod, who knows... And have had unpleasent run ins with not one, not two, but THREE separate moderators on TFT. All for mentioning I recorded me giving the breachstone to the moderator... Which makes me think they wanted to use that point as grounds to extort more currency out of me at a later date when I tried to appeal.

So yeah... Fuck TFT and the high horse they rode in on. GGG really just needs to make it obsolete, by actually improving their report system for scammers and/or fixing trade so it isn't so convoluted + making harvest crafts & maybe syndicate benches tradable somehow (An orb to store the effect, similar to beastiary orbs?). With a few changes TFT would be rendered completely obsolete, and a third party would no longer have so much control over the game.

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DissonantPeace wrote:

Gotta agree about something must be done about TFT.

Also had issues with their moderators. Ran a carry for someone in global chat (not even TFT) where we agreed before hand I'd carry for free, but I get the loot. Ran the feared (Even tho the guy stayed in the entire time and didn't want to wait outside, so made scaling even harder), got a pure breachstone drop, left and went about my day.

A few hours later I get a PM from a moderator on TFT. After some discussing what was going on (where the mod was rude the entire time), he asked for my proof that we agreed I'd get the drops. I told him I could send him my chat logs in a few, but I was eating dinner right now. His response was "Delaying doesn't look good for you, either you have the chat logs or you're lying". Fuck him, he can wait 10 minutes while I finish eating over something this petty when I've been in TFT for over a year and traded thousands of exalts worth of gear back and fourth.

Something must be done about TFT? Who is going to do it? Who is John Galt?

I'm surprised you ran a carry in Global chat when you were already well established in TFT. I don't even ask for IGN until a "paper" trail is established in TFT. I trust people on TFT more than some randos on Global. I don't use the Global or Trade channels anymore and I don't have to see the spam. That is big quality of life for me.

Some people repeatedly scammed rotas on Global and they didn't get banned. I think if someone scams a rota on TFT they will get banned quickly. TFT provides recourse. Global channel, not so much.

I think the moderator picked up on your "fuck you" attitude and became more biased. In my service industry we had a saying, "You can be 100% correct and still be fired".

GGG will never improve scam reporting and trading systems. That is way too much quality of life improvement. GGG will not prioritize that.

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DissonantPeace wrote:

With a few changes TFT would be rendered completely obsolete, and a third party would no longer have so much control over the game.

This is what I think is vastly incorrect. There are *so many* "services" that players want, far more than just bulk-trading or harvest crafting, that there's no way "a few changes" to the game would make TFT (or something like it) obsolete.

GGG could completely overhaul the trade system (which should be done, but isn't likely) and TFT would still have a hundred reasons to exist, and thousands of players willing to take the risk.

The more I read through these things, the more obvious it becomes to me that there's nothing GGG can possibly do that would eliminate the need for TFT or its equivalent.

Having said that, nothing forces anybody to use TFT. Don't like it, don't use it. I know I don't. We all played just fine before it existed, we can ignore it now if we'd like. Its "control over the game" is vastly exaggerated.

I am more inclined to believe what OP and the rest of the accusers said if they can provide any proof, proving all their claims. Fact is, none have provided.

And why the smearing if there is no proof? Ah, they probably got banned for dishonesty, scamming or probably rude attitude and are desperate to get back at TFT for the ban. Consider this as a possibility.

It's their discord, they set the rules and if you don't like it, you can stop using their services. Nobody is forcing you to use it.

In my opinion as a long term user of TFT discord ever since the harvest tree plantation reworked, I consider TFT to be very useful for trading harvest crafts. Not just trading harvest crafts but also trading certain currencies in BULK.

No bargaining, no price fixing just some sincere sellers and buyers.

Best part of all, they offer 24 hr help services answering all your queries relating to the game ranging from hardware to in game mechanics or crafting help and so on.

Overall, TFT discord has help me to better understand this game and also make trading a much more safer and enjoyable experience.

This is looking more and more like a 3rd grade class fight at recess and less and less like a group of adults discussing a friggin' game.

Wow this thread is eye opening. Seeing the hoops you guys jump through and still get screwed over in the end.

Just play the game.