Something must be done about The Forbidden Trove Discord

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spongwo wrote:

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

Just another example of why I no longer contribute financially to GGG.

he says with 0 supporter packs smh

you know you can contribute with stash tabs?

What harvest crafts are still left that would be worth all the hassle on TFT? I've only had one fracture and I've been doing harvest a lot since the league started. Might as well just remove those sought after super rare crafts altogether. I'm totally fine with the more common stuff (love res change and the div ones).

TFT is also a good backup to the sometimes slow and sometimes not working official trade site.

Seems like almost everyone who hates TFT thinks TFT = Harvest. TFT is more like a guild. I don't use it for Harvest. I use it to look for some groups and rotas, bulk buys, timeless jewels, etc. There's even chats to ask questions about your build if you need help, global chats and general community things.

To me, wanting to get rid of TFT is like trying to remove guilds from PoE. This is a cringe thread.

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Revnaut wrote:

Seems like almost everyone who hates TFT thinks TFT = Harvest. TFT is more like a guild. I don't use it for Harvest. I use it to look for some groups and rotas, bulk buys, timeless jewels, etc. There's even chats to ask questions about your build if you need help, global chats and general community things.

To me, wanting to get rid of TFT is like trying to remove guilds from PoE. This is a cringe thread.

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No, it is a good thread pointed at GGG not the folks who run and use The Forbidden Trove discord. If Harvest crafts were tradable like Beastcrafting do you think people would be concerned with TFT? No.

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Phrazz wrote:

Do I know there's RMT'ers in TFT? Yes, I do, but that should of course not be a surprise. Do I know people have been scammed/ripped off by "high ranking members" of TFT? Yes I do.

how do you know?


theres history here, long before tft. a guy called axn made most of the big crafts in the first few years of the game. eventually someone else ended up with most of his items when he quit playing. there was a lot of talk, people made accusations, people knew things about that situation.

but really, those people didnt know shit.

ive been around gaming community rumour mills far too long to just buy gossip easily.

id be far more suspicious of the guy with 4 mirrors who is buying a mirror copy of the latest bow and quiver than i would be of the guy with 400 mirrors who made the item thats being mirrored when it comes to rmt.

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trixxar wrote:

How is 'proof' the way you are saying possible in this gaming format? You want everyone to record every trade and interaction on video before you believe multiple reports?

multiple reports like this one that are obviously bullshit?

last time i saw a semi believable report anyone who actually followed the thread found out by the end the guy who made the thread essentially traded with someone who mistakenly gave him way too much currency, he refused to give the guy his currency back, kept it and was banned from tft because of this.

he then came here and made a huge post about how he was banned from tft for no reason and theyre a mafia controlling poe and exactly the same nonsense we see in this thread, oh we all know tft are scammers dont go there theyre bad rmt scam people how dare they ban this guy...

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trixxar wrote:

What possible reason do people have to say that interactions that went perfectly well did not actually go well? What are they gaining?

which brings us to this. why? because of situations like the above.

situations where theres some drama, a mod is forced to come in and deal with some childish he said/she said nonsense, which happens all the time, weve all had social interactions descend into that sort of idiocy. then one of the people involved abuses the mod, rants and raves, swears at people, makes threats, and the mod just decides to ban them.

then out of spite they go on reddit and make up a story about being a new player who got scammed by tft mods to get back at them.

this sort of stuff happens, a lot.

ggg have stated before they get a lot of players accusing other people of scamming them or breaking tos, and actually they have to fully investigate them all because a lot of the accusations are false. they cant just believe people when they say they got scammed, theres a good chance this is a suspect individual either out for revenge or the accusation is part of a scam in itself.


no tft mod asked this guy for his account password, got it, then banned him. it just didnt happen, im sry its idiotic, theres just no way anyone with a shred of objectivity gives that more than a 1% chance of being true.

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trixxar wrote:

Aside from that, why are you, or anyone, possibly arguing for a random third party discord stream to control most endgame crafting in PoE?

they dont control most endgame crafting in poe. its not a valid question because it presumes something that isnt true.


99%+ of trading and crafting in poe happens without any involvement with tft. 99% of what happens on tft happens without any involvement from the people who run tft.


theres scammers in every avenue of the game where theres trade interactions.

theres less of them on tft than through any other system because tft has a vouch system where you get dozens of peoples opinions and experiences of an individual to make a more informed decision about them from.



people have to take responsibility for themselves to some extent. no one forces you to put the thing in the window and press accept. if you are not happy with what is in the outgoing and incoming windows dont hit accept. thats universal to all trade interactions with other players in this game. at some point in time you just got to pull on the big boy pants and engage in responsible grown up interactions with other human beings in the community without chris being there to hold our hands and play dinner lady in the playground.

its ok, we can interact with each other as a community of human beings, were not children who cant handle the rough and smooth of contact with other members of our species and need a developer chaperone.

So TFT is good because it gives people the opportunity to scam each other, and thats how we can all learn how to be 'big boys'. Ok.

I don't think there is a lot left to argue, I disagree with you and dont think we will convince each other. I appreciate the discussion.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

how do you know?

Because he used to be in our guild, where he admitted to (and promoted the use of) RMT, so we kicked him. Now he's been in TFT for a couple of years, and God knows what he's been doing there. Another person who used to be in our guild, a damn nice guy, is also part of TFT now.

So... I'm not saying TFT is "all bad", because they aren't. I'm just saying it's a group, like every other group, with a lot of people (with different standards and morals). That's not the problem here. The problem is that they have more or less monopoly on certain types of trades, and they get to decide who gets access and who doesn't - based on A LOT of subjectivity - if they want - with NO policing from that actual rule makers of the game.

It's the principle, not necessarily the practice.

And what principle is that? The fact that a group of players gets to set the rules and police over the game's biggest source of non-commodity trading. And to be 100% clear here; I'm not blaming TFT for this.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

ggg have stated before they get a lot of players accusing other people of scamming them or breaking tos, and actually they have to fully investigate them all because a lot of the accusations are false. they cant just believe people when they say they got scammed, theres a good chance this is a suspect individual either out for revenge or the accusation is part of a scam in itself.

Then you ban the person reporting? This isn't hard and they don't investigate anything except the most prolific cases come on.

This is the same as RMT'ers everyone knows RMTers but unless you are doing some mass market shit they don't care they aren't gonna go investigate the guys that are lvl 70, primarily skills with no supports that actually work wearing 3 mirrors of gear.

Its a quagmire and it takes an incredible amount of work to actually police, I don't blame them one bit for barely doing it but I still think they should.

I've helped multiple people learn how to craft over the past few years and it's left me completely jaded because they all ended up being JSP flippers. I've come to accept that there are few players who "fully engage" with PoE who just want to play and solve puzzles for fun. Fully engaged players will tend to congregate at places that maximize their efficiency, which is why there are so many RMTers on TFT.

TFT is just a tool for efficiency and bears no responsibility for what people are doing with it. If the RMTing 5-way hosts and service providers weren't using TFT to advertise they'd just go to the next most popular place to advertise. Nothing would change.