Titles and Achievements

Achievements are ultimately a meta-game; when I see them, I tend to wonder why a good game would need them at all. I'm not saying games with achievements can't be good, of course, just that they seem to me to be a tacked-on idea compensating for something the game in and of itself should already do.

Regarding PoE and ARPGs in general, I think GGG might be content to leave the achievement meta-game up to other companies to implement; Path of Exile doesn't need achievements to be engaging in the mid to long term.

Now if achievements had in-game ramifications, then that's a whole other conversation, and one we've had elsewhere as well.

I don't mind achievements if they are sufficiently difficult to complete.

The problem is that most achievements in games are trivial and socially meaningless.

Even if you get no gameplay benefit out of it... something like completing the last difficulty on hardcore or cut-throat hardcore and getting a little thing attached to your character or forum avatar enhances the social aspect of the game.

I don't believe default can really have a worthwhile achievement...

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EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT SO IT'S GOOD RIGHT? How tired am I of reading this.

I am not saying you are right or I am right, but would like to point out that this was the same argument used by horse breeders/traders when the model T ford came along.

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I suppose you can just deal with there not being any flavour text that pops up for a few seconds. I mean, why should you even be allowed to ask for such a thing? If this is game breaking for you, I know of a riverbed or two you can get to work on.

fair point, and I was an asshat to use the "cry me a river" phrase in a dismissive, inflammatory manner.

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Does it add to longevity? With each new game that comes out it seems the shorter the game life on them is. I used to enjoy a game for months on end, but now a game will be good if it can last a week. Now I know my standards have been raised, but not so much so that I should expect to be completely bored with a game within a week. Even when I go back and play some of my more retro games they keep me amused longer than more recent titles.

I think its that the gaming landscape has changed and that we, as gaming consumers are more fickle now.
'Back in the old days' we didn't have much choice and so persisted with game titles for a lot longer than we would have now.

For instance, yesterday I spent a few hours playing "fountain of dreams" which was an obscure title that came out after wasteland (which was a post apocalyptic game before fallout was released). This game had bad gfx, mediocre controls, a ridiculous storyline & poor gameplay and yet I enjoyed myself because of my rose tinted nostalgia glasses.

If a better title in the genre had been released at the time (when I first played it) then I would not have played it so much, but as, at the time there was no viable alternatives, then I played that game a lot and really enjoyed myself.

I think the point I am making is that our collective standards are much much higher due to variety and we all tend to be more fussy and nit picky with our desires and requirements from games.

Its also worth mentioning that many titles are released these days with an average playtime listed on the box.
many RPG list 40+ hours while many FPS's are 4-6 hours and done. Now with this in mind think back to how many hours we put into some of those old titles?

how many hours did you personally put into playing the original Sid Miers Civilization?


/sv.WafflingRantMode 0

=P

Since we got moved...

What has gaming come to when you need some system to tell you what you have achieved?

I remember a time when actually accomplishing something was more important than a flash badge or a special message popping up on screen.

Stats I am in favour for but getting told i'm doing well because i'm doing what i'm meant to be doing (killing bosses/random mobs, completing quests etc) is an insult.

Unsurprisingly, I'm with Covert on this.

AND I do like a list of statistics. They facilitate self-assigned achievements without the strangely condescending pat-on-the-back from the game.

The game already features achievements, but they aren't called achievements, they are called quests. You can view your achievements in the map screen.

"Achievement unlocked" and "quest complete" are fairly synonymous


Thankfully there aren't any quests/achievements like "fill your entire stash with wisdom scrolls" or "kill brutus 10,000 times"

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Covert wrote:

Since we got moved...

What has gaming come to when you need some system to tell you what you have achieved?

I remember a time when actually accomplishing something was more important than a flash badge or a special message popping up on screen.

Stats I am in favour for but getting told i'm doing well because i'm doing what i'm meant to be doing (killing bosses/random mobs, completing quests etc) is an insult.

I find that the proper way to utilize achievements is to convey in a simple way something you've accomplished. it's not really to tell YOU that you accomplished it... it should be to inform OTHERS that you accomplished it. And that accomplishment... should be meaningful within the context of the game.

Also I agree that they should avoid stuff like kill brutus 10,000 times. Achievements should be something that a reasonable person could accomplish through skill and planning... that others could admire.


This is why my only current examples excludes default league from any achievements... and instead focuses on hardcore modes and milestones. Hardcore Cut-Throat milestones and achievements really do mean something, and I think others should be able to see those things. At best, without them, people know your level and maybe your gear... which is a waste of social meta-data.

The social meta-game is what GGG will be playing, and effectively rely on in order to fund this game. I feel that any acts that influence it have to be carefully weighed, but at the same time, I currently find that there is almost no social meta-game to be had that would fuel a desire to buy cosmetics... aside from the innate quality of being unique.

In either case, the cosmetic offerings and the desire to support and/or just buy something neat is the most basic level in the social game... exploring the next levels of community involvement and the social meta-game are up for grabs atm.

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Covert wrote:

What has gaming come to when you need some system to tell you what you have achieved?

I remember a time when actually accomplishing something was more important than a flash badge or a special message popping up on screen.

we have always had them in games, but they only appear once per play through and were called "end credits" after you killed the final boss

its all about perspective IMHO

I agree, most people love to unlock achievements. Most of them should actually be difficult to obtain otherwise I really won't get a sense of accomplishing anything.

There should be some titles, but they should be extremely hard, like :
"Get to level cap with X character ( for every character )"
"Get a high Y amount of scrolls of wisdom ( or whatever )"
This way, it won't transform into some achievement-freak like other games with hundreds ...

Achievement unlocked for creating your first account.
Achievement unlocked for begging for a key.
Achievement unlocked for get the key from begging.
Achievement unlocked for get flamed from begging.
Achievement unlocked for click the play button once.
Achievement unlocked for click the exit button.
Achievement unlocked for shutting down your windows without logging off the game...