Divine Shield and Ghost Dance suggestion to make it more hybrid

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They want hybrid characters to use hybrid bases - which they explained in the development manifesto - and what do all hybrid bases have in common? Less ES, more eva/armor.

And at which point are they "broken as hell" exactly?

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The specific post i answered and provided example is that it is useless to ES builds, that is not so at least based on current information we have.

I'm not saying that hybrid defences like ES/AR will be useless based on current information we have. I'm saying that these Keystones are useless for a true hybrid builds. Let's take your example and put it against Sirus default attack:
Sirus 4k * 0.4 (phys) = 1600 phys damage + 600 Ele (75% res)
to mitigate 50% of it, you'll need at least 8k AR, for 75% - 16k AR, so with 11.5k AR it will be around 65%.
So you'll be hit with 560 phys and 600 ele (1040 phys prevented by armor).
And that is pretty good - it MAY worth 50% reservation cost and 700 ES lost.

And what the Divine Shield "Hybrid Keystone" will give to this character for at least 1 skill point invested?
3% of prevented damage regeneration = 31.2 ES regen (from a 1k+ hit)
10.3k ES => 0.3% ES regeneration - it's not even worth a skill-point.
Ok, maybe you'll be hit 3 times in a row, so it's 0.92% ES regen - still not worth any skill points.
AND you should avoid maps with the "less armor" map-mods.
Ok, maybe it's not useless - it's even harmful. For a hybrid build.

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3% of prevented damage regeneration = 31.2 ES regen (from a 1k+ hit)

This is very one sided, this is regen from 1 hit, this shit stacks. But you do have a point it might be a bit less useful then i gave it credit to. If you eat all 6 beams it gives you 1.8% regen wish is worth a point. But yes it is hardly amazing.

That said, that is just shows that node sucks balls even for a high armour with lets say 1k es from %life as es or something. This only gives 220ish es regen, chances are by time it regens 1k es your recharge will kick in and recharge it anyway.

So it is kinda crap no matter how you look at it. But you right i gave it more credit then i should have.

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So it is kinda crap no matter how you look at it.

Divine Shield looks great against mobs paks - with a high armour I think you can get 1k ES regen, but if you have that much armour you probably don't need it anyway, so yeah - not something I would build around for any build.

Ghost Dance looks much better (especially counting in build-in synergy with ES: you can avoid hits that would prevent your recharge start), but 3% of evasion still means you'll need tons of EV to make it work. We can take your example and say that you'll have a bit more EV than AR, so:
50% reservation for Grace + shield and different helmet (with around "The Vertex" stats) => roughly 11.5k ES and 14k EV (that are very good stats with a very expensive gear).
Put him against Sirus default attack:
3% of evasion => 420 ES -> 3 times => 1260 bonus ES
not great, but definitely something you can waste a skill-point at (if you have enough EV)

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VS_Revan wrote:

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So it is kinda crap no matter how you look at it.

Divine Shield looks great against mobs paks - with a high armour I think you can get 1k ES regen, but if you have that much armour you probably don't need it anyway, so yeah - not something I would build around for any build.

Ghost Dance looks much better (especially counting in build-in synergy with ES: you can avoid hits that would prevent your recharge start), but 3% of evasion still means you'll need tons of EV to make it work. We can take your example and say that you'll have a bit more EV than AR, so:
50% reservation for Grace + shield and different helmet (with around "The Vertex" stats) => roughly 11.5k ES and 14k EV (that are very good stats with a very expensive gear).
Put him against Sirus default attack:
3% of evasion => 420 ES -> 3 times => 1260 bonus ES
not great, but definitely something you can waste a skill-point at (if you have enough EV)

The things is armour route gives you fortify i am nearly positive that you can keep max stacks with 1400 AR shield.

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VS_Revan wrote:

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They want hybrid characters to use hybrid bases - which they explained in the development manifesto - and what do all hybrid bases have in common? Less ES, more eva/armor.

And at which point are they "broken as hell" exactly?

This entire league? ES was the dominant defensive type and is looking like it'll be even better in 3.16

We still know hardly anything about what the rest of the new passive tree is going to look like, complaining about this keystone in a vacuum is pointless until we know whether it'll have more support. The manifesto literally says they added more hybrid nodes to the left side of the tree and it's likely we'll get support through masteries as well

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ES is and has been head and shoulders above armor and eva as a defensive type for quite awhile and will continue to be superior in 3.16 with all the buffs its getting aside from this keystone, don't be glib

It was always ES vs HP+AR/EV (not ES vs AR/EV) and most ppl play HP. ES is better for some builds, but it is also very expensive, don't be glib.

Anyway, my point is that these Keystones are not "hybrid", i.e. Ghost Dance:
- To get max profit, you need only 3% of your EV as ES.
- To not be punished, you need at least 100% of your ES as EV.
It's a great buff for HP builds, but useless for ES builds and almost useless for hybrid builds (which the Keystones are positioned as designed for).

I mean these keystones should at least have additional wording like:
"Can't have EV/AR more than 3x ES" - that would be fair
even
"Can't have EV/AR more than 10x ES" - would be relatively fair (but wouldn't feel like a true "hybrid" already)

The wording:
"Can't have ES more than EV/AR" is practically redundant here (as you won't get any profit from the keystones anyway with low AR/EV) - it's already cut by "3% evasion/prevented damage" - you wouldn't spend skill points into the keystone if you'd had that much ES and that low AR/EV, so can be ignored.

Having limited access to ES recovery is literally the only thing that ever keeps me from backing up my life pool with ES instead of armor or eva on my characters, I'd much rather take the higher hp buffer and get phys mitigation elsewhere

My point is that the "can't recover ES above armor/eva" is specifically there to make it useless for pure ES, and also that there's no way to know whether 8k to 10k ES + 10k eva or armor will be as hard to get as you're acting like it's going to be. The offensive masteries they've teased so far have looked pretty strong, for all we know they've added es+armor or es+eva in multiple clusters and masteries that'll make numbers like this very achievable

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My point is that the "can't recover ES above armor/eva" is specifically there to make it useless for pure ES

Pure ES wouldn't spend points on these Keystones (because 3% gives too little, even if 10k EV is easy to get), especially if the masteries will be as strong as you hoping (I doubt they will though - there were few OK, but most of them are garbage, at least judging by those they've shown).
On the other hand, if I play as HP/EV, I have to use this fat "free HP as ES" (especially if I have aura-bot with discipline) so I probably have no choice other than to build around getting to Ghost Dance (the Divine Shield seems garbage after all for everyone if not only it will cost you only 1 point and your build already have around 500 ES).

Is it intended that grace-aura doesnt count for the evasion, when ghost dance is calculated?

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