3.16 - the 'we are sorry' patch

Yes

QOL also coming too late

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sidtherat wrote:

Gutting the snowflakes: summoners

Syndicate Operatives got murdered, and those were pretty much the best things they had. The other options often relied on EE in order to be good, but EE is now dead in 3.16. Skeletons are slow and poor at clearing even with archers. SRS and zombies are meh. There's now only a narrow list of options for viable spectres.

Summoners got hit pretty hard this league. There's nothing that benefits them except for whatever we can scrounge up via masteries.

Gutting them even further will make them even more reliant on expensive gear just to get anywhere.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

Gutting the snowflakes: summoners

Gutting them even further will make them even more reliant on expensive gear just to get anywhere.

thats the point. right now all but few builds rely on expensive gear to get anywhere - thats the goal of 3.15 and 3.16 changes after all. few, very selected few builds - dont. its time to bring them down unless you want 80% of the playerbase to play these and only these.

right now summoners dont need that kind of investment up till a very, very late in the game. eating 1/Nth of the incoming damage also helps A LOT with both budget and general content compatibility.

there is a reason why they are so popular. and then there is also the perspective: summoners that deal 10m dps consider themselves weak yet SEVERAL builds out there hardly reach that point, even with top-decked items

sure, EE nerfs are bad and no access to Trinity and the likes sucks but.. going from 20m to 10m is hardly a build breaking change.

No, its a heart breaking one.

I strongly disagree with multiple parts of OP. Especially defensive nerf, lol. Sure plugging old builds into it might result in defensive nerf, but once you adjust to new reality of having to do hybrid defense you ll be tankier.

Simple example of blind nerf for armour users. Simple switch from pure armour to armour evasion gives you nearly same 50% change to evade as you had with blind, without having to get blind and keeping your armour at same level as before. Rest is yet to be seen with new tree with build set ups etc, but i have doubts it is not a buff for majority of archetypes.

That said the hype about league is nuts imho. Pretty sure very very quickly people will realize they hate new league mechanic because the reward system for it makes it nearly useless for majority of players. Uber content as cool as it is will not be played by more then 5% of player base.

If it wasn't for tree update i would strongly think this is would be one of worst leagues yet, and this discrepancy in my opinion on it and the general reception is puzzling to me, I really hope i wrong here.

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Simple example of blind nerf for armour users. Simple switch from pure armour to armour evasion gives you nearly same 50% change to evade as you had with blind, without having to get blind and keeping your armour at same level as before.

you cannot be serious

cost of obtaining blind: miniscule, at worst it meant casting Storm Brand + Blind Support at dangerous enemies. AT WORST. at best you got a weapon with blind built in:


effect: 50% LESS attack hits, regardless of mob level

to reach the same 50% evade chance vs T16+ mobs you need:

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To have a 50% chance to Evade against a Tier 16 Map monster, you currently need 13,750 Evasion Rating to achieve this. You will only need 8,150 Evasion Rating after this change.

8k Evasion is FAR more than 'having to get blind'. getting AR/EV gear wont cut it (you are NOT wasting body armour preffixes on AR/EV rolls, are you?)

yes, blind was busted and needed to go. but fact is a fact: there is no way to frame this as a buff


so please, agree or disagree but keep it real

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sidtherat wrote:

you cannot be serious

yes i can.

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cost of obtaining blind: miniscule, at worst it meant casting Storm Brand + Blind Support at dangerous enemies. AT WORST. at best you got a weapon with blind built in:

First of all now sure about softcore but #1 way people got blind in HC is flesh and ston, that is 35% mana aura hardly miniscule. Brand + blind lol that is so unreliable and active at most 20% of the time in actual game play, not to mention extremely annoying, please show me someone using this in HC. Blind weapon... sure that a clear possibility for every build like like SST raider for example... oh wait. Blind on weapon massive investment, since your #1 priority is dps not blind.

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To have a 50% chance to Evade against a Tier 16 Map monster, you currently need 13,750 Evasion Rating to achieve this. You will only need 8,150 Evasion Rating after this change.

My SST glad has 16k armour unbuffed. Given general buff or armour values/nodes it is not unreasonable to assume i can get 10k armour/8k evasion, especially since even now with same exact rolls you get more evasion/amour total then armour when you switch to hybrid base. With all t1 life hybrid life t1 armour Burgonet has 1030 armour. With same rolls Nightmare basinet has a total of 1080 armour + evasion, that is before the buffs right now. I just went from 16 armour to 18k total armour evasion why is that unrealistic again?

In reality you should be able to get higher total values. And for example for sst glad that had blind for free you don't need 8k evasion to be even with 0 evasion and old blind, just only about 5-6k evasion + new blind.

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8k Evasion is FAR more than 'having to get blind'. getting AR/EV gear wont cut it (you are NOT wasting body armour preffixes on AR/EV rolls, are you?)

huh? this makes no sense sorry. What you trying to say here? That getting 8k evasion is harder then getting blind? Sure is but how is that relevant again?

the moment i read 'my SST glad' i knew it is going to be an interesting read. it was.

first: current HC usage of Flesh and Stone is below 15%. as expected. because it is a very inefficient Blind source on anything but a phys attack build where FS actually provides offence as well

second: you nitpick the Storm Brand (despite me saying that it is the WORST way of doing that). truth is - Blind was almost FREE for anyone who wanted it (and who didnt?). It was easy to fit it into pretty much any build. replacing it with EV is more expensive than FREE. technically it is called a nerf.

third: your AR/EV calculations are neat.. for a SST Glad :) on any non-POB characters you might that hard to replicate. esp getting helmet with great rolls AND the enchant you want is rather.. optimistic. same with other pieces of gear - SST Glad is very light on itemization and has the luxury to pick defensive items (and ofc that 2500+ shield that is kinda given)

get unbuffed 10/8k AR/EV on a 2h without wasting 100% reservation on Grace/Determination - this is not that easy to do. you know it, i know it. AR characters, esp 2h that rather universally relied on Blind, all four of them, got heavily nerfed and no matter how you spin it - getting back to the same defence level is going to cost a bit. weird that already THE WORST archetype (2h melee non-block) got hit so hard. but GGG has its weird ways with melee players

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sidtherat wrote:

first: current HC usage of Flesh and Stone is below 15%. as expected. because it is a very inefficient Blind source on anything but a phys attack build where FS actually provides offence as well

ya whole 15%. This is classic example of why stats are so full of trash. Specific case we discussed is at the very least MELEE, but that does not stop you from using overall % to prove your point because it fits you? Then lets consider top builds in current league, bleed glad (free blind), sabo (free blind), raider (massive attack speed and access to blind on hit nodes). These 3 never ran flesh and stone and account for nearly 45% of all HC chars. So all of a sudden flesh and stone is used nearly 30% of all remaining characters. And at this point we magically assumed that every single character actually did run blind, which is not true to say the least. This leads to the point that least 50% of all chars in HC that wanted blind and didn't get it for free ran flesh and stone. So yes it is the most used way of getting blind in HC.

To put things in perspective the best defensive keystone in the game acrobatcis/phase acrobatics was ONLY used by 23% of hc characters. ONLY 23... trash tier.

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second: you nitpick the Storm Brand (despite me saying that it is the WORST way of doing that). truth is - Blind was almost FREE for anyone who wanted it (and who didnt?). It was easy to fit it into pretty much any build. replacing it with EV is more expensive than FREE. technically it is called a nerf.

You have provided 2 ways to get blind, i addressed them both. I did not nitpick anything. The example i gave you of getting 8k EV is also FREE, i lost 8 k armour i gained 8k EV. That is a reasonable trade of in most builds. Considering the 8k armour is a good as 16 before i gained 8k evasion FOR FREE, just like blind was in your case. Keep in mind if you had blind for free like sst glad, you still have it, even tho yes it is much much worse but not useless by any means.

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third: your AR/EV calculations are neat.. for a SST Glad :) on any non-POB characters you might that hard to replicate. esp getting helmet with great rolls AND the enchant you want is rather.. optimistic. same with other pieces of gear - SST Glad is very light on itemization and has the luxury to pick defensive items (and ofc that 2500+ shield that is kinda given)

My slammer few leagues before had nearly 20k armour, same idea. And it was obviously 2hander. I imported several random champs from Alaizer guess what they also have 16-20k armour unbuffed. Same exact idea, Oh and they all ran flesh and stone too, minor details. The calculations for helmet was purely example that you gain more total stats on hybrid armour then on pure. Nothing more nothing less, reason i used t1 to keep things fair. The values are not even that high that was t1 hybrid life. If you get t1 hybrid ev/ar you get l320 total ev/ar.

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get unbuffed 10/8k AR/EV on a 2h without wasting 100% reservation on Grace/Determination - this is not that easy to do. you know it, i know it. AR characters, esp 2h that rather universally relied on Blind, all four of them, got heavily nerfed and no matter how you spin it - getting back to the same defence level is going to cost a bit. weird that already THE WORST archetype (2h melee non-block) got hit so hard. but GGG has its weird ways with melee players

That is just a lie, import any decent level HC 2hander and they will have 16k+ armour. That is besides the fact that currently 2h in HC is about whopping 3%.
Oh another minor detail, top 5 2h champs currently in HC doesnt even have blind at all. So removal of blind nerfed them so hard!!!!

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sidtherat wrote:

POE at this point is (overly, needlessly) convoluted.

There are no real life rewards for knowing that and I do not find remembering them FUN.

POE is convoluted, not complex.

I could guess things, make build with try-and-error approach but you know what? some concepts require build with a specific gear, lvl 75 and content to test it. how many hours is it per try? you have time for that and find it fun? go ahead, literally noone stops you.

And while i speak for myself, i presume my sentiments are shared by a significant % of the playerbase.

+1

this is 100% my opinion

but many people like MORE better than BETTER - and 3.16 delivered.

..when I see the currency to modify corrupted items....defeats the whole idea of corruption. But we all know why they do this...$$$$$