Saw Peach playing POE! GGG could be printing money right now!

why is there always this assumption that new players want a shit game thats super easy and dont want any kind of challenge you would expect from a normal computer game?

its total nonsense.

basically what you get is a group of old players who just want the game to be easy mode getting upset when any sort of challenge is in the game and then instead of trying to argue against it because they know its absurd they bring in the 'new player' bullshit.

"oh i can handle a challenge but the new players cant handle any sort of difficulty at all and thats why im in the forums complaining all day every day after ggg made the game feel like a normal game with a normal level of difficulty again. because i really really care about the new players who are all 100% awful gamers that cant play anything other than babymode difficulty act1 diablo 3. its not me whos the one thats upset because obviously im a vet of this game who is good at it I can handle this thing that im endlessly complaining about."


...come off it.


new players dont all want babymode, new players are not the ones who have got used to babymode and now cant get their head around actually having to try a little. they are coming to the game fresh and most of them are going to find a game that presents a bit of a challenge and given this is a deeply complex arpg most of them came here expecting that and are up for it.

and you lot can handle it too, youre fine, you can still do all the things, you know you can, i know you can, the devs know you can.

so why dont we quit with the nonsense and actually talk specific mechanics. X mechainic feels really bad, I PERSONALLY dont like it for X reason and I think the devs should change it.

thats feedback, thats honest, thats constructive. this whole "oh but the new players..." line is just completely bankrupt in the way most veterans are using it.





streamers are advertising, virtually all companies advertise their games. if you want poe to be better, if you want poe to have better balance, get stuff done faster so changes can be more considered and tested that takes more time and time needs to be paid for, players pay for the game and streamers advertise the game to those players.

so all this shit you are bitching at the devs to solve requires paying staff to solve it and streamers are showing the game to players who then play it and donate money. the devs need them to make the game, YOU need them to advertise the game to bring in money to pay for all this stuff you want them to work on in the game. so how about we have a little common sense, have a bit of actual adult brain going on here and just get over it?

what ggg care about is not streamers, they care about making a good game and having millions of normal players play their game so they can fund it and keep making/improving it. streamers are a part of that process in that they show the game to normal players who then come and play. thats why they want streamers playing the game, because they care about normal players. if you actually spent 2 minutes thinking about the situation like rational people you would see that rather than going on these completely deluded rants about how ggg only cares about streamers and not normal players, as if theyre 2 separate entities and not 2 essential parts of the interconnected structure that keeps the entire game afloat.

Who the F is peach? u mean the princess? lmao

"

x7yr wrote:

Isnt it so cool to see Older Youtube Videos of Builds and Content which were FUN and got completly removed without any replacement ? Enjoy Peach.

sometime i do go watch old youtube videos of fun builds just for nostalgia

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

new players dont all want babymode, new players are not the ones who have got used to babymode and now cant get their head around actually having to try a little. they are coming to the game fresh and most of them are going to find a game that presents a bit of a challenge and given this is a deeply complex arpg most of them came here expecting that and are up for it.

mate, How many "new" players did you speak to? my hardcore gamer mate that i play dota 2 with, did tried the game for 2 hours and thought it was slow and boring AF and never played again. How many new players do you think are still playing this dead season?

The fact you are writing essays on the forums is evidence that GGG has made poor design decisions that hardcore fans like you are spending more times on the forums than in the actual game.

Printing money eh?

Are we talking...truckloads here?

I've got some marshmallows ready just in case.

Also, i miss peachii. She was good peoples. And not a financially-motivated talking face who views other people as a commodity, so that was a big plus too.

"

Sadaukar wrote:

"

PrairieTutanka wrote:

" The new player experience "

I've retired from WoW classic & Planetside 2. I only started POE 1 month ago. So I have the new players perspective. Yet no matter what the new player opinion is, people may want different things.

Or at least I want different things. This game certainly doesn't need to make the game easier to understand in anyway possible. It needs depth, plus additions, & expansion.

If anything these streamers like Asmongold, Lazy Peon, or Preach should be showing, is that MMO players are looking at this game & weighing it out. Including myself. So it needs a whole new project team, devoted to catering to MMO players, in my honest opinion.

Taking a long break from playing Planetside 2; which has updates too, doesn't get sponsored by big streamers, nor has a international audience. Yet PS2 still dishes out the same level or amount of updates, at least recently. So GGG, having a bigger potential for an audience, should step it up.

Tho I don't find " updating the new player experience " to be much of a use for anyone who's played more than 6 days.. nor do I find hour long podcasts only talking about leagues to be interesting enough on its own. I'd say the biggest thing POE needs rightnow, is not more endgame single player stuff. Literally anything else at all would be better, any other social out of the box multiplayer themes.

It seems like u're looking for an MMORPG in an ARPG. That won't happen in PoE, so u should look elsewhere for better MMOs.
PoE is an ARPG to it's heart and it won't change because u want it to be an MMORPG.
Asmon for example doesn't play PoE on his main stream, because he knows his main audience is MMO players. Lazy Peon is reaching into new genres, because he doesn't have much content in MMOs anymore and Preach didn't play any ARPGs besides D3 before, so he's giving it a try.

Last Epoch is a single player game, so Last Epoch should never be a multiplayer game = that's the logic POE players keep throwing my way. Which I don't agree with. If you can make a single player game, a multiplayer game, than you can make a multiplayer game into a MMO, it'a simple. May take a year to do, but it's simple in theory.

Just turn the game into Ragnarok Online's level of freedom, still was a small map to small map hopping game with small characters, doing action skills. Yet obviously IRO has more players on the map. Same concept, better graphics, 20 years later, get it done.

Also their isn't, " MMO games to go to ". Theirs Final Fantasy which is an acquired taste. Lost Ark which isn't out for NA & is P2W so far. New World which most streamers believe won't last more than a months worth of entertainment, lacking content, & New World is burning up the best GPU's, so its not a game for middle range pc's. Guild Wars 2, which is half dead. & Ashes of Creation which won't release for another one to two years. That leaves POE & POE only, so I'm sticking to my guns on this MMO shift for POE.

I don't care about " what POE was intended for, if it use to aim at a single player audience like amateurs, or what it initially is about " all those excuses can go in the trash. The game has 4 years worth of updates, for those next 4 years, they should turn POE into a MMO.

I've already ranted about how they shouldn't keep copying Diablo 2's multiplayer model (or lack of). Nor cater this game to some lame Baldur's Gate single player crowd. POE should aim at being a Diablo 4 killer, to be a Diablo 4 killer, you also need to be a Lost Ark killer.

So overall NONE of the MMO'ers (Warcraft or otherwise) who don't want to play Final Fantasy, have a game right now. None of them. Nor the mmo-pvp'ers either. That's why WoW-pvpers keep hopping games right now. Asmon would stream POE more if it had more MMO elements added to it, or in the wake of, updates wise.

Maybe the vision board for this game, has been lacking due to single PVE players holding the vision for this game back, actually that's 1000% what's been happening. Most PVE'ers lack imagination, in general.

As for NEW PLAYERS, who's viewing this game more, right now?! Is it A) Single PC players or B) MMO PC players? As for NEW PLAYERS, it's MMO players, who are viewing, POE more.

This MMO players reign supreme, for being POE's target audience for further updates. Also theirs morpg (not mmorpg) games that had bigger zones for other people. Take Guild Wars 1 for example, it wasn't a mmorpg, it was a morpg, the towns had tons of people. Channels worth of 100+ people per town channel. Yet when you quested, you only went out with 8 people. So even to say a non mmo, but a morpg, has to be this limited in multiplayer scope, isn't true.

Than you got people who straight up try to act like all ARPG's are limited multiplayer games, meanwhile they keep ignoring the fact that Lost ARK is a mmorpg + ARPG. So simply put, they can just update the game away from Diablo 2 standards of multiplayer to Lost Ark's standards of a ARPG MMO. Minus the P2W of course. Which is the selling point for POE " Play our game, we'll turn into a MMO like Lost Ark, but it won't be P2W like Lost Ark ". Ta da.

Preach may not be a ARPG vet, tho I played D2, my whole teenage life. Probably played D2 more than most on this forum. Yet I'm still not like you guys, advocating for some single player bull%$#@. For the next 4 years of updates? " Evolve or perish. "

& Lazy Peon, ye he's covering new genre's, because he's out of good MMO's to review. If it's a ghost town for MMO's for the next 2 years, with only 1 maybe decent release (Ashes of Creation), than POE should plan for that audience, especially if that audience, is already reviewing your game.

Long story short, I'll say it again; MMO players are the " New Players " as of right now, not single players. Whither I leave for another game or not, this is still true.

"

PrairieTutanka wrote:

Last Epoch is a single player game, so Last Epoch should never be a multiplayer game = that's the logic POE players keep throwing my way. Which I don't agree with. If you can make a single player game, a multiplayer game, than you can make a multiplayer game into a MMO, it'a simple. May take a year to do, but it's simple in theory.

Also their isn't, " MMO games to go to ". Theirs Final Fantasy which is an acquired taste. Lost Ark which isn't out for NA & is P2W so far. New World which most streamers believe won't last more than a months worth of entertainment, lacking content, & New World is burning up the best GPU's, so its not a game for middle range pc's. Guild Wars 2, which is half dead. & Ashes of Creation which won't release for another one to two years. That leaves POE & POE only, so no theres only POE, & I'm sticking to my guns on this MMO shift for POE.

I don't care about " what POE was intended for, if it use to aim at a single player audience like amateurs, or what it initially is about " all those excuses can go in the trash. The game has 4 years worth of updates, for those next 4 years, they should turn POE into a MMO.

I've already ranted about how they shouldn't keep copying Diablo 2's multiplayer model (or lack of). Nor cater this game to some lame Baldur's Gate single player crowd. POE should aim at being a Diablo 4 killer, to be a Diablo 4 killer, you also need to be a Lost Ark killer.

So overall NONE of the MMO'ers who don't want to play Final Fantasy, have a game right now, none of them. Nor the mmopvp'ers either. That's why WoW-pvpers keep hopping games rightnow. Asmon would stream POE more if it had more MMO elements added to it, or in the wake of, updates wise.

Maybe the vision board for this game, has been lacking due to single PVE players holding the vision for this game back, actually that's what 1000% what's been happening. Most PVE'ers lack imagination, in general. As for NEW PLAYERS, who's viewing this game more?!?! Is it A) Single PC players or B) MMO PC players? As for NEW PLAYERS, it's MMO PLAYERS, who are VIEWING, POE more.

This MMO players reign supreme, for being POE's target audience for further updates. Also theirs morpg (not mmorpg) games that had bigger zones for other people. Take Guild Wars 1 for example, it wasn't a mmorpg, it was a morpg, the towns had tons of people. Channels worth of 100+ people per town channel. Yet when you quested, you only went out with 8 people. So even to say a non mmo, but a morpg, has to be this limited in multiplayer scope, isn't true.

Than you got people who straight up try to act like all ARPG's are limited multiplayer games, meanwhile they keep ignoring the fact that Lost ARK is a mmorpg + ARPG. So simply put, they can just update the game away from Diablo 2 standards of multiplayer to Lost Ark's standards of a ARPG MMO. Minus the P2W of course. Which is the selling point for POE " Play our game, we'll turn into a MMO like Lost Ark, but it won't be P2W like Lost Ark ". Ta da.

Preach may not be a ARPG vet, tho I played D2, my whole teenage life. Probably played D2 more than most on this forum. Yet I'm still not like you guys, advocating for some single player bull%$#@. For the next 4 years of updates? " Evolve or perish. "

Long story short, I'll say it again; MMO players are the " New Players " as of right now, not single players. Whither I leave for another game or not, this is still true.

You claim a lot of stuff, without giving any source other than "because I said so".
You seem to think that MMO players are the saving grace for PoE, since PoE is dying right now (hint: it isn't). MMOs are losing players and interest for years now, the same as ARPGs did after D3. So when u say there's a huge crowd of MMO players and especially PvP players out there, just waiting for PoE to be an MMO, where are ur sources for that? Where are the numbers?

Also isn't it more realistically to hope that new upcoming MMOs like New World or Ashes of Creation (that are both very much based on the aspect of open world PvP) are going to be for those people and it might be better to shape those games instead of shoehorning PoE into an MMO? (which the developers clearly don't want it to be)

I don't know, but I just don't see it. If I feel the MMO itch, I play FFXIV. If I feel like playing an ARPG, I play PoE.

Lost Ark might be a mixture, but that doesn't mean that PoE has to be aswell.

Any way, I hope u get what u want... but don't change what other ppl are already enjoying in the process.

I don't know how you would poll people who don't play WoW classic or WoW retail anymore, people who don't play Guild Wars 2 anymore, or all the people who don't want to play Final Fantasy. For those "stats" you want.

Just intuition from playing those games & watching the streamers who are hopping games right now. (Pvp'ers too, which I can provide links to those streamers at best), yes they are trying Lost Ark too. Or awaiting D2R.

Even if I start playing Final Fantasy, I'd still want POE to be a MMO. Playing a MMO, doesn't change my opinion on this subject. The fact that POE has to continue to be based on Diablo 2's 1990's level of a vision board, for the next 4 years, isn't good enough. People fail to realize that Diablo 2's multiplayer was only limited, because WoW wasn't released yet. Than Diablo 3's multiplayer was limited, because that team lacked imagination for their entire D3 project.

Sooo... that just means the notion of what a ARPG is " suppose to be " is left for grabs, it can be anything. If you believe it has to be Diablo 2 style only, than your missing the reason why Diablo 2 had limited multiplayer to begin with. Pre-WoW was the main reason. Not anything to do with sticking to a certain level of content, just for the sake of it. Being released in the 1990's also another reason. 20 years of advancing pc games, should mean a lot more, to broaden the scope of any ARPG. Regardless of who it copied to begin with.

So that knocks the Diablo 2 reasoning off the list. So that leaves these PVE'ers on the forums, sounding like single player Baldur's Gates players. So yes, I'd rather have them model this game off Ragnarok Online at least for server numbers & pvp / social content. Which yes, I find it better than trying to be Baldur's Gate. So yes your either trying to turn POE into a MMO like Lost Ark, or Ragnarok Online. Or at least a bigger MORPG like Guild Wars 1. Or your stuck in the 1990's with Baldur's Gate single player.

Overall I don't need graphs explaining how many people would play this game, if it had a variety of features, instead of 1 alley to talk about leagues for the billionth time. I just need intuition from playing most these games & listening to the feedback for what every ARPG or MMORPG is lacking or needing. Plus being the top general in most these games for the ones that have good pvp, if any of them even do.

P.s. I don't want to play New World to be honest, even if it caters to casual pvpers. Ashes of Creation, may be good, may not, but waiting 2 years to findout, idk. I'd rather have this game update itself for those 2 years, till then. Then play both, at best.

"

With the mass exodus of WoW players and Preach one of the biggest streamers in the world playing POE, I cant help but wonder if ggg actually spend some time IMPROVING the new player's experience instead of making it worse by juicing up act 1. GGG would not just gona be getting INCREASED money but could be making MORE money instead. This joke is not nearly as funny as the current state of the dead league.

Unlike with Asmongold who successfully had his viewership moving to FFXIV, Preach, though he sustained his viewership, hasn't succeeded and gathering traction to POE. One main reason, MMORPG players are mostly looking for a communal gaming experience which POE isn't friendly with.

I'd say the core POE community is rather toxic.

But that said, he seems to keep racking viewership unlike most POE streamers... the amount of views they are now gathering is pretty abyssmal.

With D2 Rez one week away, I do not see POE gathering much traction for the rest of the year. Peeps seem to be discounting this rework as feeding to Nostalgia... but that is writing down how solid of a game D2 remains. Fun, fast, multiplayer friendly and casual player friendly.

We'll see how things go, but I am no longer holding my breath for upcoming PoE patches.

"

BaneslayerAngel wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

new players dont all want babymode, new players are not the ones who have got used to babymode and now cant get their head around actually having to try a little. they are coming to the game fresh and most of them are going to find a game that presents a bit of a challenge and given this is a deeply complex arpg most of them came here expecting that and are up for it.

mate, How many "new" players did you speak to? my hardcore gamer mate that i play dota 2 with, did tried the game for 2 hours and thought it was slow and boring AF and never played again. How many new players do you think are still playing this dead season?

The fact you are writing essays on the forums is evidence that GGG has made poor design decisions that hardcore fans like you are spending more times on the forums than in the actual game.

the fact that i was a new player, and everyone i know was a new player at some point, and we were all new players when the game was slower and harder than it is today and we loved it and we are still here says everything. everyone here to who joined more than 2 years ago was a new player when the game was slower and harder than it is now and we are here playing it because we enjoyed the game.

the game is obviously not for your friend, its the fastest arpg ever made essentially, if its too slow for him hes not an arpg guy. the game isnt for everyone, theres a reason its poe and not angry birds, theyre not looking to make the most popular game ever. they are looking to make the best arpg ever, that has an audience and any arpg fan knows the game starts slow and gets fast. feel free to go play call of duty or dota or hearthstone if you dont like arpgs, this is not for you.