so.. the melee is FINALLY dead now? :)

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

I'll support my statement further.

Look at the items that are being "allowed" to go legacy, and those that are not. The rare and valuable ones... that already cost a lot... well... those items are allowed to keep their ability to snap the game.

Which is fine with GGG. Because those items were behind a currency or an RNG gate already. Now they will be more so.

The items that are not being allowed to go legacy? Common drops. Easy to find. Piles of them lying about.

I'm looking at you Rotgut. No legacy for you!

I play since 1.0 did you know that back in the days they nerfed melee base and chest base in a way that even rare mirrored items became obsolete?

I owned a 670 Pdps sword back in 1.0 at the time it was very top then they nerfed the base of all sword and my mirrored weapon passed to 590 pdps.

Your rare items are not at all immune to nerf granted it is rare they touch mods nowadays.

"

lolozori wrote:

Good luck playing the game for the next 10 years if all the casuals just can t play it anymore. The game could have nerfed the high end instead, "dedicated" players like yourself would have still win and pwns anyway while having less power. Unless it is not really difficulty that you search but elitism.

"dedicated" players might just play on empty servers if casuals desert the game.

They should have nerfed from the top not from the bottom. The fact aurabots are untouched is telling.

I don't have "wins and pwns." My character's - and I mean all of them - cannot kill:

- Shaper
- Uber Atzeri
- Elder
- Uber Elder
- Maven
- Any Guardian with the Maven Present
- Cortex
- Any of the Maven Super boss combos

I also never, as a rule, do deleriums. Because I'm almost guaranteed to die.

So, you are wrong. My level 100 Champion uses a pair of Rigwald's Commands and lacerate.

I could buy a full mirror suit if I wished. But that's silly. I can just pay somebody to kill whatever I can't, and save money.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

I'll support my statement further.

Look at the items that are being "allowed" to go legacy, and those that are not. The rare and valuable ones... that already cost a lot... well... those items are allowed to keep their ability to snap the game.

Which is fine with GGG. Because those items were behind a currency or an RNG gate already. Now they will be more so.

The items that are not being allowed to go legacy? Common drops. Easy to find. Piles of them lying about.

I'm looking at you Rotgut. No legacy for you!

now you are just making things up

legacy or no legacy is trivial matter of how was the mod designed in the db. they even explained it in the past. as a someone with a considerable background in the field - it is very plausible and realistic explanation.

if a mod is easily referencable and/or can be modified via proxy (like applying hidden on the fly multiplier) - it can and will be changed.
if it isnt because someone created it in some other way - then it wont. this includes adding anything new - this cannot be done trivially.


so.. maybe stick to the topic at hand?

"

lolozori wrote:

I owned a 670 Pdps sword back in 1.0 at the time it was very top then they nerfed the base of all sword and my mirrored weapon passed to 590 pdps.

Yes, if they nerf the base-item type, even your legacy won't be safe. This has always been this way, and we'll see some of the legacy flasks get zapped by the flask charge changes - which will impact all legacy variants - as it's a change to the item base.

But you must ask "why" they nerfed the base item? The answer is, because it was too easy for "the masses" to use that more powerful base item to clear the content easily. It was not gated behind huge cost or extreme RNG.

Your perfect 640 damage sword was not the target. All the 490 normie swords were.

You were, what they call in the military, "collateral damage."

"

yamface wrote:

This is still nothing compared to the fact that controlled destruction was utterly destroyed and deleted as a viable gem for any crit build.

I can get behind this one, it was always incredibly dumb to me that crit builds are using a gem that penalizes crit over gems that are meant for them. At least those might be usable now that they were buffed a bit and everything else is nerfed.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

But you must ask "why" they nerfed the base item? The answer is, because it was too easy for "the masses" to use that more powerful base item to clear the content easily. It was not gated behind huge cost or extreme RNG.

Your perfect 640 damage sword was not the target. All the 490 normie swords were.

I don t know if your example about the 490 normies relate to this patch also but if it does, I don t know if you can find a lot of normies owning a awakened multistrike yet it got nerfed.

I dont think they targeted normies at all I think they wanted to nerf all base of players but I think they are wrong to nerf support instead of the rare mods introduced in the game recently.

They surely destroy normies doing the support nerf in particular melee ones but again I don t think it is their goal to nerf only casuals .

Side effect of this patch is that Good gear might become more expensive because all the power in builds will come from gear now.

"

sidtherat wrote:

now you are just making things up

legacy or no legacy is trivial matter of how was the mod designed in the db. they even explained it in the past. as a someone with a considerable background in the field - it is very plausible and realistic explanation.

if a mod is easily referencable and/or can be modified via proxy (like applying hidden on the fly multiplier) - it can and will be changed.
if it isnt because someone created it in some other way - then it wont. this includes adding anything new - this cannot be done trivially.


so.. maybe stick to the topic at hand?

And I'm a doctor/lawyer/engineer or whatever-ever else I need to be for any given internet discussion!!

;)

GGG is quite capable of changing every suffix and prefix, none of them or some of them. It should be very easy to do this, and while I am not a doctor/lawyer/engineer/AAA game developer, I have made modules and campaigns from scratch using Obsidian's NWN2 toolset, Infinity Editor for BG, the Larian Divinity OS II Toolset, the Warcraft III toolset, and TorchED for Torchlight and Torchlight II. The NWN Toolset in particular is, literally, the same tools used by Bioware and Obsidian to develop NWN and NWN2.

Editing an item is trivial in all of these game engines. (And before you start on scalability, the NWN 2 toolset can and DOES support MMO scale persistant campaign worlds, which run to this day). Changing an item's suffixes and prefixes is trivial. Propagating that out to only existing items or excluding them, in itself, is trivial. (Scale can make the actual process stickier, but the changes are NOT).

The only way I can imagine this would be a difficult is if they're not keeping the equipment powers segregated from those applied to, say, mobile objects. (creatures). If GGG were so lazy they just applied item properties to creatures, then they deserve the awful headaches they'll get.

But, I'm going to assume they are, at least as competent as us armature's making mods for fun - and thus not giving your Thri-Kreen the same exact haste effect that's applied to the Short Swords of Quickness +2 that you might have to adjust the frame-skip on for balance reasons.

So, since we're operating under the assumption that GGG is staffed by professionals, who don't create crazy item and stat dependencies, we can then begin to ask why the expensive items are generally allowed to go legacy, (barring item base changes, which have - and will always - zap everybody), and the common ones frequently see power-scaling.

There is a methodology to this.

It's a game health issue, not a "we hate average players" issue.

I dislike the term casuals, because real casuals won't notice the changes.

The people upset and hurt are "Average" players who understand the mechanics and invest considerable - but not game-breaking - amounts of time.

Games like this are selling you the chase, the lotto thrill, the endorphin hit, and the pride of being powerful. If that comes too easily, the game will die off - far faster than it will by angering the average Joe.

It's not about accessibility. Games like Candy Crush are about accessibility. GGG sells endorphin hits. And they have to keep them hard enough to get that the ship stays floating.

Understand... GGG likes a power player the same way a casino operator likes a jackpot winner. The guy who cleaned the tables for a $1,000,000 - or that 690 base damage White Socketed Corrupted double +2 Bow - is worth a million bucks in free advertising.

They sell you the dream to strive for - but, just like the guy running your local card house, they can't let all the normies walk out with a million bucks. If something is happening and all the average people ARE winning, then the game - just like the casino - goes under.

So yes. The average bloke is the target. Of all of this.

And rightfully so.

items in this game are kept in long-row table as blobs of text. you can see that if you plug into trade api and check the raw format. GGG explained this and other technical stuff with the first time they did 'unjust legacy' items nerf

theories like yours were demolished as pure bollocks because all that mattered was if the mod was easy to modify or not. they only did easy, safe modifications - values or multipliers applied globally (like life leech moods that were multiplied by .2). echoes of things gone wrong can be found on reddit - one-of-its-type ball lightning, flasks with 3 mods etc.

oh, and they dont give a f.. about standard

if you want to continue this 'the plebs is gonna be gutted the hardest and it is good thing' - please consider creating your own thread, this one has different topic

T/L, D/R: Version:

Grinding Gear Games deliberately intends for extreme, game breaking power to exist, but only for a small minority of players. These players serve to inspire the masses to try and achieve similar levels of might. If the average players do begin to amass comparable power, then the game will be re-balanced to maintain the status quo.

The goal is to keep you striving - and buying - but never reaching. Because people who have everything get bored and stop playing. And more importantly... buying.

"

sidtherat wrote:

if you want to continue this 'the plebs is gonna be gutted the hardest and it is good thing' - please consider creating your own thread, this one has different topic

This discussion is relevant, as it goes into the why of the issue, which is important.

And melee is a long way from "dead." I notice from reading the patch notes that a lot of the power that was on Virtue Gems has been moved to the skill tree and equipment. A quick example off the top of my head is the changes to the Impale Damage piercing nodes, which keeps the non-strike, non-slam skills viable. The strike and slam skills get to keep ruthless, which is still really strong as a support gem.

You couple changes like those with the boosts in base melee skill gem damage, and things are not looking so dire.

ALSO - the new armor is going to add a lot of damage mitigation. You better believe that is playing a part in the fortify changes.

This is all about maintaining equilibrium. The status quo.