so.. the melee is FINALLY dead now? :)

"

yamface wrote:

Just about every melee gem listed in the patchnotes got a numerical damage buff and we still have the same 5 people whining about melee, again.

Melee is the least affected by the mana multiplier changes. Guess what mana leech is a thing for melee builds, it's not for spells. Trigger mana costs shit on spells much more than melee because melee barely relies on triggers at all, that includes cwdt.

Spell dots didn't "win" this patch, they are beyond fucked. Cold dot is absolute trash with the support gem changes, specifically the hypothermia changes. Chaos dot was already weak in damage, and when I say weak I'm not talking about the nonsensical bitching everyone loves to bring up about "melee" builds. I am talking: it is extremely hard to make spells like ed do more than 2 mil dps even after dumping dozens upon dozens of ex into it.

these numerical buffs were promised (and underdelivered tbh) as a compensation to melee skills that HEAVILY relied on 50%+ gems (brutality, melee phys etc) that were MURDERED in this patch. spell supports in general had less multipliers so the relative change form them is smaller (excluding bonechill and hypothermia - both are completely baffling changes)

the magnitude of these changes.. they simply look like random excel formula + normalization so the numbers 'look nice'

melee is ABSOLUTELY affected with mana changes. while melee has mana leech (in theory) it doesnt have the pool for the leech to be effective.
quick example: my wildstriker (cold variant) uses 22mana per swing now, will use 58 next patch. leech barely manages to keep up with current cost.

ofc ill hear 'just reassign some passives or use mana flask'.. i think it is much easier to play trapper


and ED example. 2mio on a DoT skill is worth 10mio of a melee striker. it is the real damage that matters, not the paper number. DoTs are safer, cheaper, easier to play and do bossing reliably and without risk. because they only need to hit once per several seconds, melee has to pump or the dps drops to 0.

"

A small correction here: Ruthless Blows now has the same multiplier. When attackspeed is higher than the cooldown of Fist of War (which btw is not hard to achieve) then Ruthless Blows clearly wins over Fist of War in terms of dps.

important bit: Ruthless is now strike+slam only. They did that because bleed Lacerate was too good to ignore :) it is yet another nerf to shit skills like Cleave.

seriously, what 5 supports phys Cleave can use now? because i honestly have problem with that

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

yamface wrote:

Just about every melee gem listed in the patchnotes got a numerical damage buff and we still have the same 5 people whining about melee, again.

Melee is the least affected by the mana multiplier changes. Guess what mana leech is a thing for melee builds, it's not for spells. Trigger mana costs shit on spells much more than melee because melee barely relies on triggers at all, that includes cwdt.

Spell dots didn't "win" this patch, they are beyond fucked. Cold dot is absolute trash with the support gem changes, specifically the hypothermia changes. Chaos dot was already weak in damage, and when I say weak I'm not talking about the nonsensical bitching everyone loves to bring up about "melee" builds. I am talking: it is extremely hard to make spells like ed do more than 2 mil dps even after dumping dozens upon dozens of ex into it.

these numerical buffs were promised (and underdelivered tbh) as a compensation to melee skills that HEAVILY relied on 50%+ gems (brutality, melee phys etc) that were MURDERED in this patch. spell supports in general had less multipliers so the relative change form them is smaller (excluding bonechill and hypothermia - both are completely baffling changes)

the magnitude of these changes.. they simply look like random excel formula + normalization so the numbers 'look nice'

melee is ABSOLUTELY affected with mana changes. while melee has mana leech (in theory) it doesnt have the pool for the leech to be effective.
quick example: my wildstriker (cold variant) uses 22mana per swing now, will use 58 next patch. leech barely manages to keep up with current cost.

ofc ill hear 'just reassign some passives or use mana flask'.. i think it is much easier to play trapper


and ED example. 2mio on a DoT skill is worth 10mio of a melee striker. it is the real damage that matters, not the paper number. DoTs are safer, cheaper, easier to play and do bossing reliably and without risk. because they only need to hit once per several seconds, melee has to pump or the dps drops to 0.

"melee is the least affected by mana nerfs" does not mean "melee isn't affected at all". These mana nerfs shit on spells 10x more than any melee skill can imagine.

Spells lost controlled destruction as a staple support. Dots lost hypothermia/efficacy. Brutality nerf is nothing compared to the crap spells lost. Even the impale nerf is nothing because impale effect is over compensated with new changes in tree and rollable mods on gear.

And 2m dot dps is worth 2m melee dps idk where you pulled that 10m number from. Dot builds have very little if not 0 leech and is much squishier, we can stop pretending like dots have all benefit and no disadvantage.

"

yamface wrote:

Brutality nerf is nothing compared to the crap spells lost. Even the impale nerf is nothing because impale effect is over compensated with new changes in tree and rollable mods on gear.

brutality nerf just murdered starforge even further. What you gonna link in starforge now?

As for impale, I bet they ll nerf it further next leagues so it s like a dead man walking.

Starforge died in harvest my dude.

This is still nothing compared to the fact that controlled destruction was utterly destroyed and deleted as a viable gem for any crit build.

Most people think they can just slap on empower -- empower is weaker, and it is going to make the mana problems even worse.

This is why I never spend too much currency on my characters. PoE is always changing, and whenever game-clearing power becomes too accessible, nerfs are assured.

My characters are, for the most part, still wearing the equipment they got in Talisman and Legacy League. I throw little improvements here and there, but no major overhauls. Anything on them that's valuable and powerful is only because the equipment became Legacy.

/e goes back to rolling Chemist's Flasks of Adrenaline/Ironskin/Reflexes/Of The Order

"

yamface wrote:

Starforge died in harvest my dude.

This is still nothing compared to the fact that controlled destruction was utterly destroyed and deleted as a viable gem for any crit build.

Most people think they can just slap on empower -- empower is weaker, and it is going to make the mana problems even worse.

I don t want to compare melee to caster too much but I agree with you casters got destroyed as well.

However my starforge example imo is relevant because all those nerfs we see now impact casuals and inexperienced players the most. Harvest is not a tool casual or inexperienced will use with great efficiency and so they ll rely for their dps on few things easy to obtain.

One of those thing was support gems now destroyed
The other thing are easier to obtain items with average powerlevel like starforge.

Now both those casual tools are dead.


casuals now have disfavor and what else? I don t see any casual or new players even attempt to play melee past yellow maps.

"

lolozori wrote:

....all those nerfs we see now impact casuals and inexperienced players the most.

That's good, because they were intended to. As I said above, GGG is fine with you breaking the game, so long as you passed an astronomical currency or RNG gate to do it.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

That's good, because they were intended to.

Good luck playing the game for the next 10 years if all the casuals just can t play it anymore. The game could have nerfed the high end instead, "dedicated" players like yourself would have still win and pwns anyway while having less power. Unless it is not really difficulty that you search but elitism.

"dedicated" players might just play on empty servers if casuals desert the game.

They should have nerfed from the top not from the bottom. The fact aurabots are untouched is telling.

I'll support my statement further.

Look at the items that are being "allowed" to go legacy, and those that are not. The rare and valuable ones... that already cost a lot... well... those items are allowed to keep their ability to snap the game.

Which is fine with GGG. Because those items were behind a currency or an RNG gate already. Now they will be more so.

The items that are not being allowed to go legacy? Common drops. Easy to find. Piles of them lying about.

I'm looking at you Rotgut. No legacy for you!

I don't get much the additive dmg multiplier. Should it make the replica shroud more expensive by stacking mass abyss jewels?

I mean, I will definitely play some Wild Strike build this league just for funzies, but I don't get much the support nerfs.


does Ice Crash totems count as melee?