Remove the stupid idea of losing xp in standard on death

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Assuming you can keep up 1% per map as you go 97-100 in higher tier maps that would also mean roughly 3 hours per level.

For what is worth:

On my way from 96 to 97 it took me longer to chisel/roll those maps, vaal, apply sextants, add scarabs/frags, buy Zana mods and pick a master mission than running the maps did.

Its like 10+ clicks and browsing through half a dozen tabs or something like that per map before you get to clear it.


If I could buy some QoL thingie to reduce this tedium, Id buy it in a heartbeat

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Orbaal wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Assuming you can keep up 1% per map as you go 97-100 in higher tier maps that would also mean roughly 3 hours per level.

For what is worth:

On my way from 96 to 97 it took me longer to chisel/roll those maps, vaal, apply sextants, add scarabs/frags, buy Zana mods and pick a master mission than running the maps did.

Its like 10+ clicks and browsing through half a dozen tabs or something like that per map before you get to clear it.


If I could buy some QoL thingie to reduce this tedium, Id buy it in a heartbeat

you can speed it up when you roll multiple maps at once and than run them in sequence

I know. I usually have a tab dedicated for that so I can prepare some 20-ish maps, line them up and already put sextant stacks next to them every 3 maps, so I remember to reroll those as well.

Frags, scarabs and whatnot will also be readily placed next to the maps in that tab, so I just have to pick them up and toss them into the device.


But it still does take quite some prepping time and I wish there was a tab I could buy doing just that for me in some way, shape or form.
Dont really care how as long as it speeds up the procedure and reduces the amount of clicking.

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innervation wrote:

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3. What you've written above is your interpretation of the game, the way use see it, and you look at it through this specific context. It isn't true for every player.

Not true, I'm telling you what the devs have said since the game's inception. This is the way they see the game, and that's what matters since they're the ones making it.

I'm gonna take your word for it and assume it's accurate. If that's indeed developers' design, then I can accept this argument.
However, bad design choices aren't justified just because they're design choices. The issue we're discussing here, the ones I brought up earlier as side notes, are examples of bad design choices from a game development perspective and it perplexes me how someone who is a player too fails to see this.
Those issues turn more people away from the game than bring in. Just because something is the way it is by design doesn't mean it's automatically right. Flaws of a game don't have to be just technical in nature or something that is non-intentional. They may as well be a result of developers' bad choices and those equally deserve to be pointed out and criticised.


And in regards to new responses pointing out that exp penalty isn't that big of a deal and can be grinded through, let me state again - it's not a matter of scale, but of principle. If someone came to your house and forced you to give them 10 bucks just because, your thought shouldn't - and wouldn't - be "well, 10 bucks isn't that much, it could be worse, it's not that big of a deal". No, you'd think "why in hell should I give any of my money, no matter how much".

I'd say that players who are defending experience penalty as a concept suffer from some sort of Stockholm Syndrome.

GGG is just in love with the level 100 chase goal. That is the purpose of the experience point penalty. It makes the level 100 a chase goal. The experience point penalty isn't even very noticeable until leveling in the 90's. The last few passive skill points don't really mean that much, generally.

So the experience point penalty is a trade off between having a level100 chase goal versus upsetting some players. I know some folks that stopped playing PoE when they discovered the experience point penalty. GGG has decided the slightly hurting the games retention from that point of view is worth it to have the level 100 chase goal.

Personally, I think it is a bad decision but accept the fact that GGG has more complete information about player retention. What does seems clear though is that GGG loves this level 100 chase goal too much to change it at this point.

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Balcyn wrote:

I'd say that players who are defending experience penalty as a concept suffer from some sort of Stockholm Syndrome.

Nope, its a little more complicated than that.

First off the XP penalty isnt a big deal as long as you know what you are doing.
Secondly this game is meant to be more on the hardcore side of things. You not liking it doesnt make it a bad design decision. Its simply you not liking something and projecting a whole lot onto other people.
Thirdly the penalty is one of the mechanics bringing people back each league because they still havent achieved their goal and strive towards doing better this time around. Might not apply to you, but it still does apply.

Also it does provide a meaning to higher levels rather than being a given everyone gets eventually. You have to bring some knowledge and dedication to the table, otherwise you wont get there.
And yes you are right, its chasing away some people. The sort of people who would demand more and more casual design choices and turn this game into Diablo over time.
Its the same thing over and over again. Casuals flee a game thats boring because its too casual, then demand more casual design in whichever game they play next - eventually turning the game into the same casual shitshow they fled in the first place and flee that game as well.
So its better to weed them out right away and send them packing.
Its the sort of people who wouldnt bring enough dedication to succeed in PoE anyways. No point in having them around.

I for one love the penalty and would quit the day it gets removed. You should have played videogames in the old days like back in the 90ies.
Back then game were brutally hard and compared to that PoE is still a walk in the park. Its good at least some games do not cater to casuals like about 99% of the games out there do.

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Turtledove wrote:

What does seems clear though is that GGG loves this level 100 chase goal too much to change it at this point.

In a way they have changed it by letting it become easier and safer via 5-way Legion rotas and Chayula rotas (honorable mention infused Beachhead). Ever since Harbinger League I haven't considered level 100 trade league an achievement any more. For SSF and HC, sure.

Same for their 40/40 challenges. If you can brute force your way there by buying completion from other players, what's the point?

They need to add meaningful grinds back into the game. The kind you can't cheese through a stack of exalted orbs. Or maybe I just need to go to SSF, idk.

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innervation wrote:

Same for their 40/40 challenges. If you can brute force your way there by buying completion from other players, what's the point?

They need to add meaningful grinds back into the game. The kind you can't cheese through a stack of exalted orbs. Or maybe I just need to go to SSF, idk.

That's exactly how I felt about Challenges since forever. When they introduced challenge leagues and I played my first one (Nemesis I believe) I thought it's so cool to have stuff to grind towards and have something to show. (Achievements were something like that before, but not as meaningful imo)
After some time I realized that those challenges had some really hard rng involved and it was almost impossible to complete a good amount just by myself.
That was also when I realized ppl buy/sell challenges and do challenge rotas and at that point I stopped caring for them. What is the challenge in buying stupid completions or rotas?
If u can't really do it on ur own or if u do, u kinda feel stupid for it then what's the point.