Remove the stupid idea of losing xp in standard on death

Well, even as a beginner you should be able to get to some 94-95, just run the "content" that is safe for you: you can pick the low enough map tier to get weaker mobs; if you die in juiced rare maps - you can run them blue, alt-rerolling to easier mods. You can skip bosses and "dangerous" encounters unless you are at near zaro current XP and have no XP to lose. Of the unique maps, T15 beachhead is very easy and still yield somewhat good xp, the amount of these to level from 95 to 100 was about 200 maps if alzheimer serves me well.

There's also enough non-map content to level safely - delve, breachstones, even heists if you run them white/blue. If you are in trade league and have some pixel "currency", you can participate in group runs, where your only goal will be to not die, the "carry" will clear the mobs for ya.

As for builds, for beginner it would be easier to follow some guide, and if you want to gain levels, balancing your defence/offense is important.

Getting to 100 would be basically the same grind, but a waaaay longer and boring, for me, being old and lazy, it falls into the same "special olympics" category as getting 40 challenges, but of course it can be done with enough dedication.

As for removing the death penalty, i'd say it gives these levels some meaning, otherwise it would be like diblo3 with its endless paragon levels and shit being brought to you on a platter.
Theoretically, the devs could have made difficulty levels again, scaling xp/damage/death penalty accordingly, and it would benefit total newbies as well as hardcore veterans, but its very unlikely to happen if you ask me.

People don't understand the reason for the death penalty; it's not there to "show if your build is good", it is there only to delay you and make your play with a build longer.

It's an important distinction because it means there isn't a build where you won't die... except...

Those very few meta-builds you copy from others online. So, it is actually there to show if your build is this specific one here they want you to have at this particular time.

Which is the horrible actual result of this. It goes directly against both the idea of diversification AND difficulty, since all you have to do is follow videos and tutorials online to win. Trading further enables this, since you can just farm something in easy maps to trade for the gear for that build.

In the end the game is long and easy for those that just want to go to 100, and hard and frustrating for those that think this to be a diversified game where you can create your own build. Those that think creating the build by yourself IS the game, instead of racing mindlessly through easy maps hundreds of times. The very opposite of what the game poses to be.

There are other ways to make the game longer, like for example, making the game longer. Since they release new content every ~3 months, this is what they should be doing, like many other arpgs. Just because your idea is new doesn't mean it's better...

"

mrhouston wrote:

People don't understand the reason for the death penalty; it's not there to "show if your build is good", it is there only to delay you and make your play with a build longer.

It's an important distinction because it means there isn't a build where you won't die... except...

Those very few meta-builds you copy from others online. So, it is actually there to show if your build is this specific one here they want you to have at this particular time.

Which is the horrible actual result of this. It goes directly against both the idea of diversification AND difficulty, since all you have to do is follow videos and tutorials online to win. Trading further enables this, since you can just farm something in easy maps to trade for the gear for that build.

In the end the game is long and easy for those that just want to go to 100, and hard and frustrating for those that think this to be a diversified game where you can create your own build. Those that think creating the build by yourself IS the game, instead of racing mindlessly through easy maps hundreds of times. The very opposite of what the game poses to be.

There are other ways to make the game longer, like for example, making the game longer. Since they release new content every ~3 months, this is what they should be doing, like many other arpgs. Just because your idea is new doesn't mean it's better...

Nugiyen hit lvl 100 on a lightning strike build in ultimatum ssfhc, that 'meta' build argument isn't true. It comes down to persistence and game knowledge more than anything else. Also lvl 100 is a totally self-imposed goal, there is no gameplay benefit of levelling past 95.

"

there is no gameplay benefit of levelling past 95

Except playing more with that build if you want...? Why isn't there more benefits...? Why not going up to 200 with the same exp required from 90 to 91...? Why have a level cap if you can just keep increasing exp required...? You're thinking too small, my friend.

"

Nugiyen hit lvl 100 on a lightning strike build in ultimatum ssfhc, that 'meta' build argument isn't true.

How does this say it isn't true...? Did Nugiyen created his build by his own or did he watched countless people and tutorials to do it...? Did he leveled by facing challenges or did he do countless easy maps...? You understand one can reach 100 with a bad build, and a shockton of boredom-proof patience, right...?

If he didn't do any of those, which I highly doubt, can hundreds of thousands of players do the same...? What's the percentage that does?

"

smtad wrote:

"

Marinxar wrote:

No... Honestly, reaching level 100 should remain a accomplishment.

No one care this accomplishment in Standard. So just remove death penalty in standard.

That's just flat out wrong

"

mrhouston wrote:

How does this say it isn't true...? Did Nugiyen created his build by his own or did he watched countless people and tutorials to do it...? Did he leveled by facing challenges or did he do countless easy maps...? You understand one can reach 100 with a bad build, and a shockton of boredom-proof patience, right...?

If he didn't do any of those, which I highly doubt, can hundreds of thousands of players do the same...? What's the percentage that does?

Just saying that strike builds are extremely off-meta. Idk what you mean by tutorials - you just need to play the game to learn it, not watch tutorials. I don't look at tutorials/build guides either, I do look at other people's builds for a general idea/inspiration and then plan based off on it. Idk your definition of 'bad build' but I've also done pretty much all the endgame bosses this league and I wouldn't say my builds are 'meta' - unless your definition of meta = good/efficient builds and off-meta = shitty builds.

Look here on poe.ninja - https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?class=Raider

How many lightning strike or storm brand (build that i'm playing) raiders do you see? Its all toxic rain, ele hit, blade blast etc. That's what is meant by 'meta' vs 'non-meta'.

"

innervation wrote:

"

Balcyn wrote:

The fact that person's build isn't very good doesn't change the fundamental fact that EXP loss is indeed the most ridiculous, retarded, unfair and outdated concept there is. Especially combined with other characteristics of PoE such as random mods on monsters, ridiculous number scalling in the late endgame and serious performance issues. I don't care about arguments about balancing problem or whatever; under no circumstances it is ever right to take something away from the player the he/she already, fairly earned (unless of course they intentionally subscribe to such rules i.e. Hardcore Mode).

For the quoted post, exp is like your Heist goodies. You haven't 'earned' shit until you lock it in. For Heist that means escape with your life. For experience that means getting to the next level.

I give credit where credit is due - that's a logical, consistent argument. Nevertheless, I believe it's invalid.
That would be a reasonable comparison if, for example, dying in a map would make you loose xp gained on that map. That makes sense - you play a given content, you fail, you loose xp from it (that could actually be very sensible solution, because it would make sure you can't progress beyond given content level if your build cannot consistently manage it, therefore - isn't strong enough for it). Hell, if you ask me, you can even loose the map itself i.e. all remaining portals.
Penalty is acceptable.
Penalty is reasonable.
Experience penalty is not.
How is that fair when dying in a map A today makes me loose Exp gained in map B yesterday? No, it's not about locking it in - I completed the maps, killed all the monsters, defeated the boss, done extra content (metamorph, blight), didn't die in the process - I earned that Xp damnit. If we don't agree on that basics, then why stop at 10% penalty? Why not de-level? Why not loose entire Xp and go back to lvl 1? Oh, and here's hardcore mode coming up again.
It's not a matter of scale, but of principle.
And besides - single Heist takes up to 5-10 minutes tops. You loose it and the reward's - that's bearable. You attempted it and failed. However, 10% exp at level 95+ can easily be hours worth of playing, which for non die-hard player that actually has a life outside video games can mean couple days of playing. And you loose that in a split second because of some stupid one-shot - which is gonna happen even if you play very tanky build - that more often than not hasn't been your fault and you had no way of preventing it - besides not actually playing the game. It's ridiculous, unfair, and terribly discouraging. I don't have the way to prove it with citation, but from what I've seen, heard and read, I bet that more people have quit or gave up PoE because of that than for any other reason. You can quote me on that.

I agree, we need to loose all items on death instead

"

lolozori wrote:

I agree, we need to loose all items on death instead

Hardcore Mode exists.

Some kind of meaningful death penalty should still be ingame, but make it more interesting and not so bland as it exists right now.

Some examples come to mind like Diablo 2 where you can get a portion of your exp back when reaching your corpse without dying.

The other one is from the souls like game The Surge. If you die there you drop your materials and after respawning you see a timer that tells you how fast you must reach your death location/corpse before the materials vanish.

Maybe combine some of these elements to make dying more interesting.
In PoEs case it would need to have some sorts of diminishing returns to prevent endless corpse running.

Experience penalty should stay ingame but let the players have some agency in this case, to get a part of the exp back (40-50% as an example).

If they fail to retrieve the exp (for whatever reasons) they deserve it. In the other case getting it back is not such a letdown as it is now but will still incentify to rethink what was going wrong with your current playstyle and build.