Resolute Technique & Non-Crit Builds

The problem with lightning damage isn't going to be shock, though that amplifies it. The problem is that lightning damage in this game is designed to have a very low floor and a very high ceiling. On average it's about as strong as the other two elements but if you provide it with a means of ignoring the floor and always do max damage it's going to leave the other two elements completely in the dust.

You say it's not good if RT helps elemental builds more than physical ones, well your solution will turn RT into an lightning damage only thing.

So RT isn't good outside of slams and dots. Yeah i agree. But how many attack based builds are there that do not fall into one of those 2 categories? Strikeskills basically. I can live with the fact that i have to go crit if i play strike skills, just like i do with spells. I mean yeah a buff would be nice but it needs to address the problem without causing others and i don't really have a great idea how to do that.

Crit IS better than RT in every possible case for a HIT, damage centred build.

it used to not be the case. but one accuracy rework latter getting to 3500 base acc rating became easy (not free, but easy and not impacting build space in any way) and the sources of crit are so plentiful your baseline is not 5% but more like 11% and that is for garbo weapons.


it comes from how POE scales damage. all 'increased' sources are piled together and you get 300-500% of it on pretty much any build. the only way RT builds can scale up is by stacking more %increased or finding an external multiplier (ie: seismic + intimidating cry + sick base values for slams)

getting 400% increased you need to double your damage (considering 15% per passive, excluding travel) requires 26+ passives. there are no RT-specific damage increases available so anything you take, crit builds can take, too


meanwhile going crit.. as with all mutlipliers in POE it is better to have more, independent multipliers than to have one, combined - diminishing returns say hi. crit is scaled with +base crit (chest, gloves corruption, some skills/support), %crit (tree, gear) and %multi. then you get some 'freebies': assasins mark is INSANE. diamond flask is crazy and bottled faith is just stupid. not to forget Precision gives non-trivial %crit chance

it is this multipronged approach that makes getting satisfactory crit scaling so easy - because you dont really face diminishing returns. every single investment into crit you can REALLY feel.

for a 5% crit chance axe (like my fav: soul taker) taking just:

+1% flat crit chance chest (DIRT cheap, goes up to 1.5/2 for endgame)
+1.5% flat crit from AssMark lvl8
+40% multi from the same AssMark lvl8
7 passives everyone takes: Disombeweling (4) and Dismembering (3) for 175% / 75% multi
+40% crit chance from lvl 13 Precision


gives you-->
+2.5% flat

7.5% flat crit chance before %increased

215% increased


23,6% crit chance with +115% crit multi for a horrible 5% base crit weapon

that way, for ~7 passives and few non-invasive gear choices your damage went from

'1000' to '1600'

and all this with minimal investment. it is not an investment at all. if you are ok with low damage or play Slams - sure. but for anything else RT is not justifiable in current game. crit is really way (too) easy to get and too strong to ignore.

try to replicate that for RT build. the savings you make on skipping on accuracy cannot be made good to reach this type of damage. and number of very evasive enemies can be counted few fingers so you DO hit 100% of the time.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Spoiler

The problem with lightning damage isn't going to be shock, though that amplifies it. The problem is that lightning damage in this game is designed to have a very low floor and a very high ceiling. On average it's about as strong as the other two elements but if you provide it with a means of ignoring the floor and always do max damage it's going to leave the other two elements completely in the dust.

You say it's not good if RT helps elemental builds more than physical ones, well your solution will turn RT into an lightning damage only thing.

So RT isn't good outside of slams and dots. Yeah i agree. But how many attack based builds are there that do not fall into one of those 2 categories? Strikeskills basically. I can live with the fact that i have to go crit if i play strike skills, just like i do with spells. I mean yeah a buff would be nice but it needs to address the problem without causing others and i don't really have a great idea how to do that.

I agree with you that min-maxers will default to lightning damage for RT if "always deal max damage" applies, but for everyone else that plays a strike skill the buff would be less than "double damage".

Heck, even for lightning based damage, that doesn't actually hit "double damage" compared to the current output.

Why not let RT get a bit more in line with the asinine requirements of the timers slapped on almost every damn new content added???

If timers wouldn't present hard limits requiring finishing content in a "timely" manner, I wouldn't complain that much about the current discrepancy.

As it is, you're welcomed to jump in, go RT non-DoT scaling with a strike skill of your choice, heck pick something lightning based, and manage END GAME CONTENT (anything above difficult modded corr T16 Aw 8 maps counts), then swap to slams with the same damn build - sure, swap 12-20 points for warcries + clusters if needed - or go scale some DoTs if possible and experience the "better experience".

Heck, for the "best experience" go and swap to Crit instead of dealing with RT and then you will understand completely that Mariana Trench level of difference that me and @sidtherat keep talking about.

As I tend to use strike skills to the end game, I think the real problem is that bar slams and DoT scaling, RT = WORST CHOICE POSSIBLE. That wouldn't matter, as even with the improvement the hierarchy wouldn't change much, but it might help TencentGGG to better balance content, as right now, there is too large a difference between the bottom feeder aka RT strike skills vs Crit.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

As I tend to use strike skills to the end game, I think the real problem is that bar slams and DoT scaling, RT = WORST CHOICE POSSIBLE. That wouldn't matter, as even with the improvement the hierarchy wouldn't change much, but it might help TencentGGG to better balance content, as right now, there is too large a difference between the bottom feeder aka RT strike skills vs Crit.

If you're admitting RT has actual uses, then why are you trying to change it?

If RT doesn't work with your skill, the obvious thing to do is not spec into it... I mean by your logic EE fucks up a lot of spellcaster builds, so I guess we should beg ggg to rework EE too?

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yamface wrote:

Spoiler

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sofocle10000 wrote:

As I tend to use strike skills to the end game, I think the real problem is that bar slams and DoT scaling, RT = WORST CHOICE POSSIBLE. That wouldn't matter, as even with the improvement the hierarchy wouldn't change much, but it might help TencentGGG to better balance content, as right now, there is too large a difference between the bottom feeder aka RT strike skills vs Crit.

If you're admitting RT has actual uses, then why are you trying to change it?

If RT doesn't work with your skill, the obvious thing to do is not spec into it... I mean by your logic EE fucks up a lot of spellcaster builds, so I guess we should beg ggg to rework EE too?

I actually didn't played ailment based RT (beside MS poison) and I know slams can get more "oomph" via Crit, even elemental ones that simply spec EO.

Why not keep the lowest denominator - strike skill RT - closer to the damage output of higher "viable options"?

EE might mess some spellcaster builds, but that keystone actually works for ALL ELE BUILDS, and requires some "more investment" while making a build BETTER by providing an alternate playstyle.

RT is a generic keystone that long time ago was the lowest common denominator regarding a satisfactory base damage to experience the content, and provided a much needed low cost investment option "good enough". Close to a decade later, it actually became one of the WORST OPTIONS for a subset, while remaining only a matter of time until it will also become for the other subsets...

The balance could be helped by actually buffing the lowest common denominator for a change, so a buff to RT, is and feels, long past due...

Slam builds don't go crit because they use axes, axes have low base crit weapons, low crit passives on the tree, low accuracy nodes, slow attack speed, all the while slams have their own scaling mechanisms that instagibs everything with or without crit. In other words, going crit makes little to no difference practical damage and the only thing you do by going crit is that now you do a 60 button rotation only for it to have a chance to miss plus you spend extra passives into crit nodes which is a loss in opportunity cost that could've been dumped into survivability which is a big deal because you play a slow melee archetype.

Most people go RT for slam builds not because it's cheap. They do it because it's pointless to scale crit. There is a damage ceiling in this game, once you pass that ceiling you are wasting your time adding more damage. With the removal of 100% del farming and deep delving this ceiling dropped a lot.

EE fucks up every mono-type build, aka more than 90% of builds.

I think I havn't been specific enough on this thread, im referring to HIT builds mostly, there is were the balance should be made. Actually idk wich would be the best way to buff RT and preventing overpowering ailments builds, so if you guys figure out a better alternative that would be great ^^

I dont know if it's been said already, but why not make Resolute Technique similar to elemental overload in its use?

Rather than do the max damage thing as OP suggested (enormous elemental issues), have it be a flat MORE multiplier that offers less than a fully decked out crit build but meets it halfway or something.

I'm sure someone more creative than me can take that and run with it, but I think Resolute Technique should be the EO for non-spell builds.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I dont know if it's been said already, but why not make Resolute Technique similar to elemental overload in its use?

Rather than do the max damage thing as OP suggested (enormous elemental issues), have it be a flat MORE multiplier that offers less than a fully decked out crit build but meets it halfway or something.

I'm sure someone more creative than me can take that and run with it, but I think Resolute Technique should be the EO for non-spell builds.

That seems like a great idea, like a more damage with hits.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I dont know if it's been said already, but why not make Resolute Technique similar to elemental overload in its use?

Rather than do the max damage thing as OP suggested (enormous elemental issues), have it be a flat MORE multiplier that offers less than a fully decked out crit build but meets it halfway or something.

I'm sure someone more creative than me can take that and run with it, but I think Resolute Technique should be the EO for non-spell builds.

That seems like a great idea, like a more damage with hits.