Resolute Technique & Non-Crit Builds

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

Spoiler

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

"

TrunksD2 wrote:

Spoiler

Although some change could me done to resolute technique, there are some considerations:

- Reach 100% accuracy and crit chance is not that ez as op said. I mean, it is doable but you will have to aim for that. Ascendency, nodes, gear, reserved mana... most of those will be required. RT is just one keystone. Yet, 100% chance to hit is actually an estimation that considers your "flat accuracy number" versus your character level. RT is not an estimation. Moreover, you have maps and monsters mods that reduce your critical multiplier and chance to hit. RT ignores that...

- Always maximum damage with hits would be terrific but WAY FAR TOO MUCH VERY OVERPOWER for bleeding builds. REALLY. but if they do it, sign me in, I will be back to the game in the very same day with my bleeding bow.

- I don't remember double damage interaction, but if it works for bleeding as well, a big % number can be op too, but not as much as always maximum damage with hits...

Well, Crit scaling still reigns supreme, as Accuracy became TRIVIAL to get to 100% chance to hit, and the "dreaded Crit map mods" can be "rolled over" just like you would roll over No Leech/Regen or reflect ones...

If "Always deal maximum damage" feels over-powered for ailments, slap the mandatory "xx% REDUCED ailment damage with hits" - EZ balance (or slap a "half effect for ailments" to KEEP THEM AS THEY CURRENTLY ARE - which provides a small boost as you will only deal with the maximum damage value HALVED)...

I already explained twice about 100% chance to hit, i will not do it again. And yet, you can roll those maps, those with enfeble and avoid mobs that take reduced critical. I just said, that is not THAT ez to cap hit chance and crit since you build goes it all the way. As much as RT is not that bad as op thinks. If you read the threads you gonna see more people saying that too.

Moreover, your idea about "half effect for ailments" is TERRIBLE and shows lack of understand.

In bleeding, for example, you can hit multiple times and the higher of those hits will be the one counting for ailments purpose at time. So, eventually, in multiple attacks you hit a max roll (or a high one) and therefore, you will be doing the higher ailment possible for a period (normally enough to kill anything).

If your hit always does max damage but ailment counts as half, you will never be able to reach that same damage anymore. You will be doing exactly the half all the time. This is a killing build suggestion, not an alternative.

You and me both remember a time when Accuracy was a system that also kept Crit in check. Back then, anything between 90 - 95 % chance to hit was fine, yet these days it's TRIVIAL to hit 100% chance to hit AND 100% chance to hit evasive enemies compared to then...

You also don't need to cap crit chance, but by already having between 60-75% chance to crit, which is easier to hit that the cap, you already scale damage noticeably more than you could via RT. And 60-75% chance to crit is way easier to hit than cap.

Having map mods that reduce NOTICEABLY your damage output via enfeeble and avoiding mobs with take reduced crit is NO DIFFERENT than having mods reducing ailment damage via avoidance. Besides, those don't actually "brick the map" (except maybe for some glass-canons), while NO regen/leech feel more impactful and tend to pose higher danger - blame the asinine power creep, but you can still "trivialize" easier a damage reduction for crit than other more "dangerous" map mods...

Only multiple times hitting bleed relying builds would be affected by the "half effect for ailments" - and TencentGGG could reintroduce the previous mod with 60% chance for a 100% more damage, to counter that, or they could simply go the "xx% reduced effect for ailments" instead...

Having "max damage always" also places focus on actually getting relevant high max damage weapons and opens up the ceiling for damage scaling with RT...

One of the problems of RT when not using it to scale ailments is the HIGH discrepancy between builds using it and Crit scaling or even elemental EO scaling builds regarding damage output.

Having such a boost would be a welcomed addition...

Going crit on a slam build is only worth it if at least one of the following conditions is met.

1) You are a Berserker/Slayer with plenty of crit from your ascendancy and ideally Abyssus to get all that nice crit multi.
2) You have some GG rare weapon with at least 600+ pdps AND Crit chance + Crit multi on it.

If you have neither you'll get better results by just going RT instead of crit. Slam builds need to put lots of points into warcries anyway which is also scaling their dps as well as their Qol and the rest they can put into base damage nodes with added benefits like rampart cluster. Trying to force crit into those builds will usually cost you more damage that it gives you, all the more if it's an elemental based slam that can just take EO and save 10+ points for other things than crit and accuracy. Nonelemental slams usually have either Impale or Dot to scale so there is no shortage on damage multipliers here that you can scale instead and that require way less investment.

I'm not sure I agree. RT has always been a no brainer for many attack builds, essentially having no real drawback and I don't think that is necessarily a good position for a keystone passive.

They are niche by design and have a cost/benefit that you work around rather than being a straight up benefit.

What if instead resolute technique was changed from
Your hits can't be Evaded
Never deal Critical Strikes

to

Your hits can't be Evaded
Your Critical Strikes do not deal extra Damage
Ailments never count as being from Critical Strikes

Or would that be far to OP due to on crit effects that would then work with RT?


that makes me wonder
not on topic, but do the unique gloves painseeker allow you to afflict elemental status ailments with RT allocated?

"

isnotonline wrote:

What if instead resolute technique was changed from
Your hits can't be Evaded
Never deal Critical Strikes

to

Your hits can't be Evaded
Your Critical Strikes do not deal extra Damage
Ailments never count as being from Critical Strikes

Or would that be far to OP due to on crit effects that would then work with RT?


that makes me wonder
not on topic, but do the unique gloves painseeker allow you to afflict elemental status ailments with RT allocated?

Personally i think that is one of the better changes, but it does have the "problem" that it would benefit elemental builds way more than physical due to Elemental Overlord being a thing. That said, elemental builds wouldn't mind getting some ground compared to phys based builds so i don't necessarily see it as a problem.

The funny thing about this topic is that everyone tries to "fix" RT, meanwhile the actual shit keystone right below it is always ignored.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Spoiler

"

isnotonline wrote:

What if instead resolute technique was changed from
Your hits can't be Evaded
Never deal Critical Strikes

to

Your hits can't be Evaded
Your Critical Strikes do not deal extra Damage
Ailments never count as being from Critical Strikes

Or would that be far to OP due to on crit effects that would then work with RT?


that makes me wonder
not on topic, but do the unique gloves painseeker allow you to afflict elemental status ailments with RT allocated?

Personally i think that is one of the better changes, but it does have the "problem" that it would benefit elemental builds way more than physical due to Elemental Overlord being a thing. That said, elemental builds wouldn't mind getting some ground compared to phys based builds so i don't necessarily see it as a problem.

The main problem is that a keystone shouldn't pigeonhole you into mandatory use of another one.

And where is the logic to boost only elemental aspects on a general keystone???

A "buff" should add to RT something that can be used by physical, elemental and ailment focused builds alike...

And due to the nature of RT keystone - having "lucky" for damage rolls is "subpar" to say the least, hence the "always max damage" focus...

"Great tacticians learn that consistency trumps potential" is describing aptly "Always deal maximum damage with hits" compared to the proposed alternative - which might be a keystone by itself WITHOUT the "Hits can't be evaded tag"...

"

yamface wrote:

Spoiler

The funny thing about this topic is that everyone tries to "fix" RT, meanwhile the actual shit keystone right below it is always ignored.

Well Blood Magic as a keystone was fixed by those great additional nodes and the "synergistic" Mortal Conviction according to TencentGGG...

I would actually prefer even a larger increase on those 2 nodes - to at least 15% each, and some flavor like some % increased effect of aura, or stances, or banners...

"

And where is the logic to boost only elemental aspects on a general keystone???

That's not really the case unless you are of the opinion that RT is useless on every build and crit is always better. Imo that assumption is wrong from the get go but i won't try to convince you otherwise.

The way i see it elemental based builds would benefit a bit more than physical ones from using that new RT, but the keystone would still be pretty good for a wide variety of other builds and with phys builds typically being > Elemental builds this would help getting them a bit closer to each other. Killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

I am open for better ideas but i see way bigger flaws in the other two suggestions provided in this thread, i.e "always do max damage" and "just put double damage on it". The first would cause a large amount of follow up issues all around lightning damage and the latter would make the keystone way too strong.

Not that I am that well schooled at poe as a whole.

imo double damage vs 150% crit is > because crit would be 2.5 dmg and not "double"

But this however brings the question why have a double damage mechanic at all if its so broken?

because whether its a crit or whether its double damage or 5 times damage they do actually boil down to 5x damage vs I think the highest crit i saw was 714%

imo to be honest I would rather then have resolute technique read differently
I would have resolute technique read:
"Your hits cannot be evaded, your crit multiplier can not be higher than 150%"

This allows for players to still attain crit rate but their multiplier is blocked.

this also allows for players to not need to focus any points on accuracy.

which is kinda huge.

but me reading players can deal double damage and triple damage and they can stack on top of each other

heck why not just convert those nodes to crit multiplier nodes instead and remove double damage and triple damage as a whole?

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Spoiler

"

And where is the logic to boost only elemental aspects on a general keystone???

That's not really the case unless you are of the opinion that RT is useless on every build and crit is always better. Imo that assumption is wrong from the get go but i won't try to convince you otherwise.

The way i see it elemental based builds would benefit a bit more than physical ones from using that new RT, but the keystone would still be pretty good for a wide variety of other builds and with phys builds typically being > Elemental builds this would help getting them a bit closer to each other. Killing 2 birds with one stone so to speak.

I am open for better ideas but i see way bigger flaws in the other two suggestions provided in this thread, i.e "always do max damage" and "just put double damage on it". The first would cause a large amount of follow up issues all around lightning damage and the latter would make the keystone way too strong.

I actually don't see those same problems.

Physical builds were behind for a long time, but TencentGGG deemed them worthy of the asinine Impale and SLAM mechanics because they felt unimpactful.

Pigeonholing elemental RT to a mandatory use of EO is the wrong solution.

If lightning damage proves to be problematic - remember, we're still not dealing with up to 900% critical multi scaling - sap can replace shock for RT, or have RT shocks have a lesser impact.

Ignites and chills/freezes should also not feel OP.

Heck, they could even put a double/triple damage on RT and tune the chance to a PERMANENT xx%, and just adjust ailment effects accordingly. That would still be an improvement.

As @sidtherat said, attack based RT is NON-IMPACTFUL outside of slams and DoT scaling.

Why not buff the hits with RT to a closer level to Crits?