Is PoE the only game where people flock to it then try to change it at its core?

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crunkatog wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

it's not that players are trying to change the game at its core; it's that its core never fully matured and that's understandably very frustrating for a lot of people.

They haven't met any of their internal benchmarks for stability or adhering to the roleplaying as the main focus of the game; let alone compete favourably in those same fundamentals with other multiplayer games, even ones that aren't ARPGs.

No wonder longtime players have gotten jaded and disgruntled about PoE. They keep waiting for memory leaks, CPU/GPU load, and visual clutter to get fixed since well before 3.0, and it's still not there - it's gotten arguably worse.

Having to use third-party tools like TFT/discord, trade macro, etc. is a symptom, not the primary cause, of what ails PoE. I'm pleasantly surprised at how collective action on the part of the TFT community has largely made it possible for anyone to accomplish some very high quality and build-specific crafting on a reasonable time scale and budget. It's not perfect, but it's at least nominally more secure than global trade chat.

For some, it's a deal breaker to use any third party tools, and GGG has the right to decide which functions it wants to waste time coding into the core of the game. That said, if other game houses can do it, GGG can at least take a look.

FWIW quality of play is not an unwelcome distraction from the hard realities of life in Wraeclast. I heard nary a complaint about tab affinities or folders. Even the diehard economic opportunists value their time and carpal tunnels.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I find it astounding how people can get hyped for 'Path of Exile 2' when 'Path of Exile 1' never came close to fulfilling its potential (despite its success) and chances are this gussied-up expansion won't either.

So there you go, innervation, my more personal take on the question: it's not that players are trying to change the game at its core; it's that its core never fully matured and that's understandably very frustrating for a lot of people. PoE will very likely always be the genius savant kid with a lot to offer the world...if you can put up with its social awkwardness, emotionally baffling responses and occasional violent outbursts. The tragedy is it didn't have to be this way. GGG were exceedingly poor parents: instead of going to lengths to help their brilliant but kid function in society (ie making a user friendly trading system their top priority), they indulged its inclination towards seclusion and solitude (ie acknowledging and supporting a reliance on a quick fix that became the default).

And you might not think this relates to the actual topic at hand (Harvest crafting)...but I think you'd be wrong. A trading system that encourages usage and doesn't force the player waaaay out of the actual game to use it affects everything, from item design balance to monster balance to, yes, item modification balance. But eh, this is like speculating what the world would be like had birds become the dominant species way back when and not primates. Fun for fantasy; frustrating and pointless for anthropology.

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awesome999 wrote:

They think item acquisiton is the player's core motivator for gameplay and that is something to be exploited. Driving the value of virtual item up is something desirable, which affect the perceive value of stash tabs. Not from a game design and development viewpoint but what they knew is the undeniable evil for their own benefit. In a way, POE did mature but matured into something repugnant and incompatible with and in conflict with what some people desire.

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galuf wrote:

Imho, making a thread like that is actually quite disrespectfull, borderline naughty, and imho stating things pretty far from reality.

Most constructed criticism made about harvest change has strictly nothing with what you are talking about. Most people who critizice harvest change are actually from the crowd that is eager to try new balance patches, leagues, and see their meta and routines challenged regularily. It is why they noted exactly what went wrong with GGG statement and wrote WOT or made 30mn videos about it. They are actually rooting for the game success, implying game changing at its core constantly, their approach is very positive, and this time it makes sense. When GGG nerfed aura stackers, temp chain or other very meta things, the vocal crowd hasn't gone wild at all for example. There are things that are understandable, some are that are hard to swallow, and some that do not make sense and are not even advocated correctly(for me it happened once in 10 years or so playing this game, and it was the harvest nerf)

Please try to connect the dots and reformulate :)

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Remember this: trade during closed beta was Diablo 1 level shit. You dropped an item, the other person dropped an item, and you did a sort of hostage exchange dance past each other.

So there you go, innervation, my more personal take on the question: it's not that players are trying to change the game at its core; it's that its core never fully matured and that's understandably very frustrating for a lot of people. PoE will very likely always be the genius savant kid with a lot to offer the world...if you can put up with its social awkwardness, emotionally baffling responses and occasional violent outbursts. The tragedy is it didn't have to be this way. GGG were exceedingly poor parents: instead of going to lengths to help their brilliant but kid function in society (ie making a user friendly trading system their top priority), they indulged its inclination towards seclusion and solitude (ie acknowledging and supporting a reliance on a quick fix that became the default).

And you might not think this relates to the actual topic at hand (Harvest crafting)...but I think you'd be wrong. A trading system that encourages usage and doesn't force the player waaaay out of the actual game to use it affects everything, from item design balance to monster balance to, yes, item modification balance. But eh, this is like speculating what the world would be like had birds become the dominant species way back when and not primates. Fun for fantasy; frustrating and pointless for anthropology.

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innervation wrote:

Yeah and burger joints are evil because they exploit innocent people's desire for a hot, tasty sandwich. There's no way it's just the market meeting demand for an already existing appetite.

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Besides it's really easy to test your hypothesis. If it were true, GGG would be buffing Harvest, not nerfing it. After all, more great Harvest items would = more tabs sold.

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So that's not an 'old hat' taking the track you laid out. What's the average age of accounts posting gripes about things 'core' to the game? Damned if I know - but consider that a good chunk of them will be on the newer side.

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innervation wrote:

I do remember that!

So here's why I don't think your viewpoint, as well articulated as it is, relates much now. Or at least has related less and less as the years drag on.

How many people are left from the old days? We could go all data science on it; a determined individual could find out the average age of the accounts posting complaints from the list.

The newest complaint about exp loss in feedback? Joined: Jan 16, 2018

So that's not an 'old hat' taking the track you laid out. What's the average age of accounts posting gripes about things 'core' to the game? Damned if I know - but consider that a good chunk of them will be on the newer side.

And I didn't mention it in my last response, but FFA loot allocation and Labyrinth are two worthy examples to add to the list.