Is PoE the only game where people flock to it then try to change it at its core?

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demon9675 wrote:

I think 2 of my characters have ever used the gem. Changing sockets to go back to town is a nightmare; just use the scrolls.

That one I don't get either.

Even if you don't have a spare gem slot, and even if you don't want to use scrolls for whatever reason, just put the portal gem in your weapon swap, swap weapons and open a portal. Much faster than socketing the gem every time.

...been here since 1.0..never used gem. I have to edit neversinks uber strictt filter to show portal scrolls. Usually i pick em up only in delve...quite easy to get several hundred in one dive down there.

I show transmutes too...makes wisdoms.

Edit did they ever change the cast speed on portal? Used to be very slow compared to portal scrolls.

Of course VMTs point is why dont we just have a portal button and don't need either. So lame.

⠀

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

Take a trip back in time to what this game was before these bombastic mega-leagues and daily released MTX became a thing, and tell me with a straight face that POE hasn't changed at it's core.

I don’t think anyone was specifically asking for this game to become a bullet hell where you can’t even see the floor

GGG is perfectly capable of making bad decisions without direct player feedback. You don’t need to blame everything on the players.

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innervation wrote:

Alright maybe this is an arpg phenomenon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyghD-4UBIk

Starting at 33:50 the guy goes through itemized feedback/change requests from people who took the survey about Diablo II resurrected. It's like 70% people wanting the game to be easier, literally trying to turn D2R into D3 before it's even released.

D2 was never hard though
The original release patch only had a handful of builds that could complete the game at all (thorns and Iron Maiden come to mind) but that wasn’t because it was hard. It just had horrible damage scaling to the point where monster passive life regeneration was an unbeatable wall to players who chose the wrong skill.

After 1.09 the game can be completed in a couple hours by anyone who wants to. It didn’t get easier because there was never any real difficulty. The damage ratios just changed enough to stop being a waste of time.

People have a strange outlook over there that taking longer = difficulty

D2 is a game people have a lot of nostalgia for. It never was a great game though. But for your original question, every game is like this. Every single game I get into has loads of people complaining about what they think is fundamentally wrong with the game and needs to be changed.

D2 staying relevant for almost a decade was a freak accident then? Since it was never great.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

D2 staying relevant for almost a decade was a freak accident then? Since it was never great.

D2 ran on trash machines and had good pvp.

The bots outnumbered the actual players by such a margin that it seems even the people who play the game preferred not to play it. D2’s pvm was so slow and simple that it was virtually impossible to die even doing hardcore self-found

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

That you'd even ask this tells me you either need to play more games, or be thankful you don't. Or you're just being facetious to make a point...

Had a few people now say 'its all games' - can you name some? I'd like to read it myself. Maybe we're talking past each other because I didn't include my second post thought expansion into the OP, but I was there on other game forums. League of Legends from the game's beta until the day they deleted their forums. Dota. WC3, SC1. D2. D3. WoW, from release and for years on. Hearthstone. Overwatch. MtG. Countless discussions pages on Steam games.

You just didn't see the kind of stuff you see here. An established game with a reputation for being <X> (in this case, dark, gritty, grindy, hardcore, won't-hold-your-hand, tries to kill you at every turn, complex, complicated, cutthroat, random ARPG) and have people complain about those features as bugs for years on end, threatening to quit if they weren't changed.

You show me the equivalent of the 10k post 'the sky is falling' thread that stayed relevant in PoE GD for YEARS because this has been such a phenomenon over time. Maybe I just don't play the games where that happens.

I can tell you people never logged into the LoL forums and demanded that they let you deny your own teams creeps - I'm sure it was mentioned a few times, among a player base that big everything is bound to come up at some point. But there was already a game called Dota that let you do that, so obviously no one was stupid enough to say 'let us last hit/deny our own minions or I quit! Certainly not after LoL got out of beta and it became obvious that it wasn't going to happen.

It's OBVIOUS that the things people still gripe for today in that page 1 list I made aren't going to happen. Yet when GGG do something as simple as reiterate their design philosophy in a manifesto it spawns WEEKS worth bitching and hundreds of shocked people. HOW COULD THEY DO THIS?!?

Show me the people who flocked to WC3 and demanded it be more like Command and Conqueror for 6 straight years.

Show me the people who picked up league of legends, and then 5 years on tried to give Riot Games the ultimatum: make this game more like Dota or I quit.

What is Wolcen's niche that sets it apart from others in the genre, if you still play that game? How many people are asking for changes to that thing - the special thing that sets it apart?

Again I'm not talking X boss or strategy is overpowered. I agree with everyone in the thread if that's what you mean - those complaints will be universal and eternal. I'm talking about people trying the water down the special and unique features of a title by making them more like the other things in the genre that already exist.

Call my opinion facetious or whatever else you want, I stand by this 100%. There is something about PoE that makes it's players refuse to accept design 'bugs' as actually being features in a way that I haven't seen in any other game forums I've been a part of.

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innervation wrote:

Call my opinion facetious or whatever else you want, I stand by this 100%. There is something about PoE that makes it's players refuse to accept design 'bugs' as actually being features in a way that I haven't seen in any other game forums I've been a part of.

I do somewhat agree with you, I haven't seen 'this much' in other communities. Now, do I believe that this is totally a coincidence? No, I don't.

GGG have always longed for "community participation". I've never seen games that rely this much on third party applications/sites/information. They 'let' the community run their trading system for years, before they more or less just copied the damn site and made it their own. They WANT(ed?) us to participate.

I've also never been part of a community for a game that changes this much/often - and pushes out this much content. When big changes that affect how you play the game, are being done every third month, there's bound to be feedback - and upset people. It's WAY easier to accept that "this is how it is" when the game doesn't take certain U-turns 4 times a year. Their changes are challenging your habbits, for better or worse. The games you listed never did that, not the ones I 'participated in' at least.

A game/developer being this progressive brings A LOT of reactions/emotions/feelings to the table. There are so many 'positives' by being this progressive, especially when it comes to player retention, but there's also quite a few 'negatives' in the big picture.