Sirus/Maven = BIG NOPE

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BebopDeluxe wrote:

They're both complete shit in my book. Buggy, and unclear mechanics. These invuln phases are a total cop out so GGG doesnt have to balance the game around the top builds doing massive damage.

How about instead of trying to make every boss unkillable by every shit build in the game we try to balance the bosses around actual bossing builds so the mechanics can be fun instead of arbitrary.

I don't really see how massive dmg affects invuln. phases, but you are wrong on the second part. GGG doesn't balance bosses around bossing builds, because bossing builds evolve around bosses. That is why someone calls them bossing builds in the first place. I would suggest doing Sirus and Maven on a very tanky char who can ignore most of the mechanics. That helped me remembering and recognizing phases, patterns, and skills a lot more than getting one-shot by something. Also, just calm down for a bit, I think most of us know about that moment when you alt-f4 the game and want to make a forum post out of frustration. Still, only to adapt and overcome will help you solve this problem.

Its just practice bro. Watch some videos study them and youll beat sirus. Maven I'm sure is same. Have not done her yet.

it took me 3 seasons after uber atzrii come out to beat her. Now it's fairly easy once I got some dps so my mistakes dont compound...cuz i know how to fight the fight.

2 seasons for uber elder.

Shaper/elder/sirus/aul/cat I lucked out and beat them seasons offered but not without massive bricked tries.

Or just play summoner and chill in the back smoking a cigarette while minion do the work for you:P

I thought Sirus fight is a total crap with 15 invul phases and DIE beams, untill I tried Maven's memory games :D:D

GGG puts in invuln phases so people with 50mil dps cant gib the boss when really they should be balancing the boss around 50mil dps builds so they can actually make a fun encounter.

Maven design seems like it should be broken down and some of it moved to a separate boss.

The memory game is a creative way to do the "cognitive/executive functioning under pressure" check. It's a refreshing break from the straight-up DPS check.

The big noggin phases in between seem like they dont belong in the fight; just an arbitrary mario platform hopper spiced up with random badguys that have silly overlapping cheats.

Managing void holes is also a mechanic that could have been fun and interesting in another setting, but in the Maven fight seem randomly thrown-in as an extra layer of skill testers. Frankly these are only there to test you if you know what the balls mean and where to plant them. They're the movable storms of earlier versions of the sirus fight. I'll leave it to the audience to decide whether movable area denial is a puzzle that deserves its own arena, or just feels out of place here.

Long invulnerable phases are bad because they are non-interactive.

Short invulnerable phases are okay as long as the player is engaged during the entire time: flask recovery, playing a subgame, dodging obstacles, etc.

And they ONLY work if the player has a reasonable way of knowing when the phase begins, and ends.

In the case of Sirus, he wanders offscreen frequently, making it difficult for the player to track "Simon Says". He is often obscured in clouds or screen clutter of his own making, so you cannot be sure when you're blasting away at a target or just wasting mana at a non-target. Auditory cues help sometimes, but they shold NOT be the sole indicator of phase progression (hearing impaired players do exist and this is just "not being a dick" game design).

In the case of uber elder, both entities stay on the screen AND have clear globes of energy around them indicating when they're invulnerable.

In the case of cortex, it's pretty clear when the invulnerable phase begins, because the map device in the centre of the arena reappears and becomes active; or a giant death robot appears while Venarius slinks off to watch from the sidelines. There's always something to do and it's obvious from the very centre of the arena what that something is. (It's also well-lit and the void holes, beams, and novas are clearly distinguishable from the floor and walls)

In the case of Atziri you know when shit is happening because you can count. Are there sixteen nipples? Divide by 4, and attack any of them that isn't holding up a mirror. Are there zombies? Eat thses instead. Don't stand inside any circle on the ground. Voilà, done.

tl/dr: Visual cues are still extremely important, and long stretches of inactivity or non-interaction are about as well-received as the obligatory "Big-ass cutscene in the middle of boss combat, taking away the HUD and controls so I die to random things while the archvillain is monologuing at me"

I think they could have made like 3 different bosses from the jumble of skill checks thrown into the maven fight. I also think they could have fit 2 or 3 other boss fights in EACH ONE of Sirus' dead zones of invulnerability. Trim that shit and keep players engaged.

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BebopDeluxe wrote:

GGG puts in invuln phases so people with 50mil dps cant gib the boss when really they should be balancing the boss around 50mil dps builds so they can actually make a fun encounter.

...Or they could accept that min-maxing Timmys are inevitable and will never be satisfied, and instead balance bosses around an actually reasonable build using something other than fucking BV.

If you don't enjoy them, ignore them. No big loss. Less than 1% of the game. Don't worry about it. Only one opinion on that matters.

How would you do 50M dps without the loot from the bosses you want to lock behind 50M dps builds?

Agreed. The fight is like the lab; not hard at all once you've done it a few times, but still boring as hell - and badly designed.

Don't listen to people that can't separate "fun/boring" from "easy/hard". Sirus fight is like doing the dishes; fun? No. Interesting? No. Hard? No.