How do people play Casters in this game ?

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zzang wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Here is random example from reddit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1hFr01PzKY

Fun fact, the only 2 vids with <50 sec kills are melee builds, strike skills even. The worst skills there are according to some people.

6k life Abyssus Berserker build probably Aspect of Carnage too.

You can easily replicate that with Lacerate or Cyclone when going all out no defense 6k life with an abyssus (essentially 3.6k life against physical hits).

Id go further and say if you gimp your defences like that any caster or ranged build will burst those bosses down faster.

Random video from reddit with 30 second maven the feared siege balistas:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/lj3cii/accuracystacking_siege_ballista_vs_the_feared/

That build gone viral and I knew it is only a matter of time before someone links it here. I've already examined the build few days go. Each one of those abyss jewels with life rolls and bad accuracy would cost at least 1 ex. The ones with +200 accuracy rolls and some life are not even for sale. Replica Shroud of Lightless is 20ex. Bow and quiver?

You can still get 2 million DPS per ballista on a budget but it doesn't use Multiple Totem support so there is some ramp up time before you get to burst down the bosses with all 7 firing at once.

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jeerinho wrote:

That build gone viral and I knew it is only a matter of time before someone links it here.

To me it was just a matter of time before someone (with low knowledge and skills) links a Aspect of Carnage (10% increased dmg taken) + Abyssus (40% increased phys damage taken in best case) Berserker trying to make a point.

It was important to give a different perspective.
When it comes to scaling melee looks pretty bad.
For anything you can link i can link you something better non melee at top end level

The problem really is not what people or streamers play at league start before they have access to the good stuff. I think its more important to look what can be accomplished with harvest items available to anyone and how the shortcomings of melee look in comparison.

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zzang wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Here is random example from reddit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1hFr01PzKY

Fun fact, the only 2 vids with <50 sec kills are melee builds, strike skills even. The worst skills there are according to some people.

6k life Abyssus Berserker build probably Aspect of Carnage too.

You can easily replicate that with Lacerate or Cyclone when going all out no defense 6k life with an abyssus (essentially 3.6k life against physical hits).

Id go further and say if you gimp your defences like that any caster or ranged build will burst those bosses down faster.

Random video from reddit with 30 second maven the feared siege balistas:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/lj3cii/accuracystacking_siege_ballista_vs_the_feared/

You are missing my point. Zaen wasn't talking about spells being slightly better than attack based builds. He said "spells can do stuff melee can't even dream about". I.e on a scale from 1-10 he puts attack builds at a 1 or 2 and spells at a 10. Same for you and Sid. It's never about having skill/build X being a bit better at Y. It's always just black and white. Spells are god tier, melee is utter trash.

And yet here we are having to actively search youtube to find builds that can do endgame challenges faster than our lowly shitty melee builds using two of the worst melee skills available and then we are talking about <5 seconds difference. I mean even if i were to say that this is an actual relevant difference, it's nowhere close to being as big as you people suggest.

It's just so utterly ridiculous from my perspective that even thinking about it makes me shake my head in disbelieve. I mean it's not like i think melee is the best archetype in the game, it's not. But the absurd level of excaggeration on how far it's behind is laughable and doesn't match reality at all from what i've seen.

Besides, even discussing this from a balance perspective is nonesense as far as i am concerned. Playing on this gear level is akin to using God mode cheat codes in a single player game. It's intended by the devs that you can do it for fun's sake but it's in no way shape or form relevant for balance. By the time you eclipse the 100 mio DPS benchmark "balance" is dead, its not a thing anymore. From there it's just ridcule of the content and with enough investment any skill can get there as proven in the video above. GH IS among the worst skills in the game afterall. I am totaly fine with crazy stuff like that being in the game but using headhunter vids for a balance discussion is just... wrong.

Feel free to disagree i honestly don't care. I know there is absolutely no point arguing with you or even writing these lines aside from getting this bullshit off my mind but i had to do it so nvm.

since synthesis and the WO meta the only way I found to make a caster mostly "viable" is by just having to cast only every seconds and constantly run..

or invest a shitload on CS while already having decent/good items on top.

The game isnt designed to stand still for more than half of a second honestly.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

It's just so utterly ridiculous from my perspective that even thinking about it makes me shake my head in disbelieve. I mean it's not like i think melee is the best archetype in the game, it's not. But the absurd level of excaggeration on how far it's behind is laughable and doesn't match reality at all from what i've seen.

From what i have seen you are using massive exaggerations and underestimations as part of your debating club strategy to make a point in the forum.
You can shake your head all you want but if a 6k life Abyssus Aspect of Carnage Berserker (3k effective health pool against phys) is all you can come up with then i guess there is nothing more to add.

[Removed by Support]

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gageris wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Well, i would consider myself an average Joe and honestly, unless you pick the worst melee skills available, i don't see the problem with scaling. You might lag behind slightly in a league start situation due to having to upgrade your weapons all the time but that's basically it. You can do tier 16 100% delirium maps using 10 c unique weapons easily.

To me it seems people talk like they are comparing spells with melee when they in fact compare Heavy Strike or Cleave with Blade Vortex and Bladeblast.

Can we really say that cyclone, which covers full screen, is a melee skill?

Your question is akin to asking if can we say that blade vortex, which damage enemies at close range a ranged spell skill.

If a skill has melee tag, it's a melee skill, end of story. That means the skill considers factors like accuracy, scaling damage largely based on weapon's damage.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Feels like you are underestimating the burst and overestimating the damage needed to take down bosses. You don't need 100 million DPS, around 20 is sufficient. This type of damage is much easier to produce by miners who are able to stack mines on top of bosses before they become active.

This was nerfed btw. Now most bosses have some damage reduction for awhile when they first spawn. Of course once you invested quite a bit more into your miner you can still burst them down quickly as they appear but it's not as OP as it was once.

I thought only conquerors were changed. They are very easy anyway because they don't have map mods.